July 17, 2014 (#1449)

Originally Broadcast July 17, 2014 on awakeradio.co.uk




{♫ - You are listening to Awake Radio, straight talk for the awake and aware. -♫} 

Neil:  Welcome to Reality Bytes Radio on the 17th of July 2014.  Tonight we have our regular monthly guest Mr. Alan Watt from Canada.  Well heís from Scotland but he is based in Canada.  And the last time Alan was on we had some people in the chat box asking about Freemasonry and thatís going to be our subject for the first hour tonight.  Are you there Alan?†

Alan:  Yes I am. 

Neil:  Loud and clear.  Okay basically I suppose you know we need to start at the very beginning of where Freemasonry started from, its origins, the people involved in it, and basically its history up to the present day and its influence on decisions made by whoever may make decisions these days.  So you know I mentioned in the email I sent you that I tried to plow my way through "Morals and Dogma".  Iíve actually tried to do it twice and I just got about halfway through both times and kind of gave up.  I shouldnít have, but it wasnít my book and I had to hand it back to somebody so thatís why I hadnít got through that.† But I distinctly remember getting part of the way into it and then you know it all sounds all very, very fluffy and nice.  And theyíre all out to help everybody and then I canít remember if itís the 6th or 7th degree or something and they turn around and basically, well Mr. Pike turns around and says well basically weíve lied to you up to now and this is what itís really about. 

So is Mr. Pike the originator or does it go way, way before that?

Alan: Oh it was way before that.  And he was the grandmaster of what they call the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry for the U.S.  But the Scottish Rite wasnít developed in Scotland.  The one that they teach in the U.S. came from the Grand Lodge in France and they were given their charter from France.  So they were a kind of revolutionary type and everything else is run from the Grand Lodge in England basically, the York Rite you know.  But the one in the States definitely is a revolutionary type flavor.  But in the recent century or so, theyíve adopted a lot of other degrees from the other lodges, including the Royal Arch Masonry and so on that came from Scotland.  So theyíre combining together as theyíre meant to do eventually. 

What they do is a dialectic, you create say a Grand Lodge in England for instance and then in those days, back in the 1700ís, they were still fighting Catholicism basically and there were many factions that joined masonry in those days, the disaffected and all the rest of it.  And even before they called it Masonry as such, and established it in 1717, you go back further and you find the Rosicrucians in France were agitating for revolution, the end of the monarchy, this kind of utopia theyíd bring in, this brotherly love stuff, international.  Itís still being followed today by the way.  But youíll find a lot of it really came, seems to come from France in its earlier days under different names and so on and then developed into Freemasonic institutions.  But today theyíre all working together with a common goal.†

Basically theyíre all working today towards the end of sovereignty for nations and creating a global system.  They do believe, like Plato did in his book, "The Republic", that there should be enlightened masters who rule the world.  Theyíre always referring to the Fisher King, like Solomonís Temple and Solomon himself, who would select the successors for the guys at the top to keep running the world rather than leave it to politicians and the usual psychopaths.  But again underneath it all donít forget thereís awful lot of psychopaths go into Freemasonry because they all know thatís how you get ahead, even in politics. 

So you go way, way back into ancient times and empires, Rome had different orders too.  They had the equestrian order for the knighted cavalry they had there.  And they had the collegia for instance, another bunch for all the legionnaires and their centurions who were all sworn to defend each other and help each other in times of trouble, etcetera.  They were brothers and then as you go down through the ages you end up with the Templars.  And even in Britain you had the early Druids and the Chaldees and so on like that, that were brotherhoods as well.

Modern Masonry is starting to debunk a lot of the myth that was a continuous process all down through the ages from Solomon to the present.  That was very popular in the 1700ís to get recruits into it but today theyíre dispelling those myths.  And basically Masonry as it came to be known really was formulated and standardized to an extent in the 1700ís. 

Neil:  Okay so if we move into the modern era from the 1700ís onwards if you like, how did these secret societies (for want of a better word) establish themselves within not just the establishment but in the wider kind of political systems across the globe I suppose?

Alan:  Well youíll find if you go back actually to the 15 and 1600ís, and especially in Germany where so much was happening at that time, and Holland as well, you had the beginnings of the Protestant religion coming out there.  And even before that came out there were many factions competing as an alternative to the Catholic church which was very powerful and hence the need for secrecy of course, naturally, because back then you could be burned as a heretic if you were caught trying to get subterfuge going to bring down the Catholic church. 

So you had different factions fighting that too, on both sides by the way, and you find that disaffected groups as I say, and minority groups, had got together and came up with the idea of a religion.  Everyone at that time was religiously minded remember.  They werenít into a scientific age as we know it today.  And so they had to get a substitute religion, or the one that they all knew, which was Christianity, and alter it a little bit to take the power away from Rome and to do subterfuge and so on. 

So Holland was a big base for it, and then into Germany, and you find that there with their different lodges.  They started to go into more revolutionary work.  And they had big ongoing battles for a long time with the various authorities to try to destabilize the system at that time and bring in a new system which they themselves would rule. 

England was very famous for it in fact because England, in Freemasonry you must take an oath today in modern times to defend and stand up for the nation that you live in regardless of its policies, but it was different in the 1700ís and the 1600ís, England was sending out revolutionary Freemasons to Holland to ensure that the revolution across Europe was going properly.  And but back home the masons were sworn not to revolution because England was already taken over, including the monarchy.  So they wanted to bring a kind of parliamentary system in, what they called the beginnings of democracy, and which they themselves, the higher masters, would rule.  That was the basics of it. 

And they also wanted the abolition of private property down the road because again they followed Platoís "Republic", the book, where Plato said if youíre a king you always have the worry of keeping up palaces, castles and so on.  Why not get the public to pay for it, and pay for your servants?  And then they can refurbish things that are stolen or lost or broken and you can simply live like a king without having to pay for it all.  Well thatís the system of what weíre going into today, the New World Order.  The bureaucratic system weíre in today, you have people living like kings, actually better than kings of old, in high bureaucratic positions as they tend to run our lives from childhood to death now.  Thatís where theyíre going with it all and the abolition eventually of private property.†

Youíve got to remember too that the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry that Albert Pike was the head of in the U.S., he was also in charge of the Masonic World Revolution Society.  And he passed that on to Mazzini.  And Mazzini spread it over to Europe, and Italy, and other places to get revolutions started all over the place.  Again it changed hands a few times with successors to Garibaldi and different people and then eventually turned up and it was bestowed upon Lenin and then they called it the Bolshevik or Communist party. 

Neil:  So I mean this is always a global phenomenon if you like, for want of a better word.† And I mean how did these guys communicate back then?  I mean did they have some kind of secret network as such back in those days? 

Alan:  Oh yeah.  Even in the ancient orders that they used to have in countries, the fraternity groups in different countries, like Rome as I say, they had the Mithraic group.  The Mithraic Society was a competitor to Christianity for centuries, very similar in many ways too.  And the initiate had to go through the blood being poured from a bull that was above a grate above him.  They slaughtered the bull who represented the power of the universe or the sun and he was drenched in blood, he was born again.  And that was the Mithraic cult.  Many of the legionaries belonged to that cult for centuries and they were sworn to secrecy.  But they used symbols, words and symbols, lots of symbology to transmit their craft as they call it. 

Neil:  Yeah.  So I mean for example say an idea originates in England, I mean how long would it have taken these guys to kind of coordinate the next step in that kind of plan or idea, you know to implement it all at the same time as it were?

Alan:  Well the whole point was lodges and in ancient times and even through the British Empire days it was often done with traveling lodges that went along.  Each regiment of troops had their own traveling lodge and in fact thatís how the Orange Lodge really took off.  They were sworn to the monarchy of England and they took their traveling lodges with them all through the U.S. in fact and elsewhere, even into India. 

So wherever they went if there wasnít a lodge there already, they would establish one.  If there was one there they would transmit the new orders and charters and so on.  The whole point was total efficient communication between different branches and lodges across the world.  Today itís perfect. 

Neil:  Well I mean just coincidently Iím sitting here just south of Belfast and weíre in the marching season here and weíve driven through a few towns and villages where the Orange lodges are and the Union Jacks are waving all over the place.† And you know Iíve seen it in Scotland as well.  I mean anybody who thinks this is a purely Irish phenomenon only needs to be in Scotland around the 12th of July to see that, about twelve to fourteen miles west of Edinburgh, there is an Orange lodge from there to the west coast of Scotland.†

Alan:  Thatís right.  It was only a few years ago that they stopped their marches through Scotland too.  You know they used to march through the streets.

Neil:  Yeah there are still some little ones that go on in some of the villages around about West Lothian and places like that where you have politicians talking about the West Lothian problem.  Well that suggests that a lot of it is caused by these guys. 

But yeah, I donít know if many of the listeners know that I lived in the south of Ireland for many years and the 2nd largest Masonic Lodge in the world is one hundred meters from the Irish parliament.  And Iíve heard that from many people, including official journalists and stuff, that there is a passageway below that which goes under the street that connects it to the parliament building.  I donít know if youíve heard anything about that but it is officially the 2nd largest lodge in the world so I mean anybody who thinks that Ireland was ever given independence only has to look at that building.  I canít remember the exact words of the placard on the door but itís really quite sinister when you look at it and understand what the words mean.  But you have mentioned many times before and I think it was Albert Pike that said it that we never speak so plainly as when we speak in public. 

Alan:  Absolutely.

Neil:  Is that a paraphrase or was that his exact words? I canít remember.

Alan:  That was his exact words pretty well.  It isnít just what they say; itís what they do with their hands and so on in public as well.  And you can go into say if there is a branch meeting on, or even the Masonic hall itself, and a stranger comes in with his wife for the meal, some party meal thatís going on there, a dance or something, if you watch the guys who are at the door especially, a stranger will come in and then heíll watch and he will go up and heíll introduce himself to the guy there in a Masonic fashion.  And there are different little gestures even with their hands, even pulling their pants to an extent too, things like that.  Itís quite funny to watch them as they pass and communicate to each other. 

But theyíll say it quite openly you know.  People wonít catch on to what theyíre actually saying you see.  Youíll think theyíre saying one thing but theyíre actually saying another.

Neil:  Yeah I mean thereís a lot talked about, about the handshakes and the ceremonies and rolling up their trouser legs and all that kind of stuff.  And I donít know how much of thatís true or false or whatever but you know itís certainly put out there as something to watch out for or something thatís done behind closed doors and all the rest of it. 

Talking about gestures, I mean I see politicians all the time, I think I watched that speech thatís going around now by Christine Lagarde about the number seven and all of that.  I donít know how much of that is put out just to have a laugh at us all really, but this hand gesture where the hand is horizontal with the four fingers closed and the thumb sticking straight up.  Iíve seen every politician use this hand signal and I mean I donít know youíve studied symbology and all this kind of stuff, is that a specific gesture?

Alan:  Itís a gesture too.  Even the "V" sign is a gesture like Winston Churchill used and so on, but in fact even, in vogue with the youth today with the pop culture, rock culture, is the devilís horn as well.  That also comes from the old societies.  In fact you will see that gesture used by paintings of monks in the Middle Ages using that gesture.†

Neil:  Does it have any specific meaning or is it just a kind of sign?

Alan:  Yeah it does.  It also tells the kind of lodge theyíre on because there is a little secret to do with the left hand path and the right hand path because Masonry uses a dialectic process to get things done.  To get something changed one group will come out and oppose say the standing traditional group, whatever it happens to be, or system.  But itís not good enough.  You need two opposing systems; if that initial system wonít fight back no change is going to happen.  They donít get anywhere.  They need conflict so you must get debates started by having two opposing groups you see.  And then you get your resolution that they come to.  They always come to agreements where they will lose some ground on either side but theyíre really going forward into a definite plan by the ones who organize it.  And thatís called the dialectic.  Today we call it the Hegelian dialectic.  So itís thesis, antithesis, and then they come to synthesis which is the goal they want to arrive to in the first place.

So the left hand path and the right hand path sometimes are sworn even in the same lodge, two masters were brought together and be sworn to in public oppose each other to come to get to the particular agenda that they want to get to, the change that they want.  Itís always for progressive change they call it. 

And so youíll see them often putting up the right hand and doing the sign, or the left hand, and that tells you their role in that particular thing.  But they personally have no animosity towards what you see as their opponent because theyíre both brothers.†

Neil:  Yeah.  I mean itís a sign, I mean anybody watching any major political figure or leader or the head of the IMF or whoever it may be, they all use this sign, itís very easy to spot it because itís not a natural gesture.  Itís not something that you would do naturally.  So itís obviously you know well practiced and delivered. 

Alan:  Well youíll see the five points of Masonry.  Youíll see them all when they meet, especially leaders of state and so on, when they meet publicly.  Youíll see them coming up to shake hands, right?  And they have to shake hands and theyíre all smiles and so on and then one hand will stay on the guyís right hand and then your left hand goes up to the elbow, so they both clutch the elbow.  And then if you watch them they step in with the right foot.  Itís foot to foot, then knee to knee, and then itís chest to chest or heart to heart.  And the hand goes around the back and thatís your five points of Masonry. 

You see they all do that.  It doesnít matter what country.  Even during the Cold War you would see it with the Soviet leaders doing it to each other and the western politicians. 

Neil:  Yeah.  Iíve had a few of my colleagues talk about Putin and wonder if heís on, if heís on the side of the good guys, if he is helping us out and all the rest of it but I mean itís got to be obvious that none of these guys are on the good side you know.†

Alan:  Thatís correct. 

Neil:  As you say, and to use their own terminology, theyíre all in it together.  I mean in terms of the, I mean the recruiting process nowadays; I mean how is that implemented?  I mean previously as I understand it, it was kind of based upon the kind of, the masons, the builders, and the tradesmen and stuff and getting into this kind of private club and it goes on from there.  I mean obviously itís a lot more sophisticated nowadays.  I mean what is the just the types of recruitment processes they go through nowadays?†

Alan:  Well nowadays, in the old days it was essential in the guilds, and that is true.  It was a craft in other words.  And like any trade craft and if you were a carpenter or a stone mason you didnít want any interloper coming in and saying that he was, he knew a little bit but not enough, and con you, so they had to have passwords for every level from entered apprentice all the way up to the master stone mason.  And so they had the proofs, if the person would question you, and you would have the proofs that you were a fully qualified one because you knew the passwords for every level that you would pass through in your apprenticeship.  Thatís where it all came from.  So they were called operative masons because they were actual craft masons and then the speculative masonry came in with a different agenda, they copied a lot of the old rites and so on because theyíre technically building the world. 

First you start with man, you build man himself.  What is man? man is a temple, you see.  And so then you go on to build a circle of friends.  And your tie, the necktie by the way that everybody wears, is a Masonic emblem you know.  Thatís your tow rope.  It goes around your neck, thatís the noose, and the idea being in the lodge that that gave you your circle of influence, your capabilities within a specified circumference, just like the dividers when you use the compass.  That was your sphere of influence on what you could do and influence everybody in your life towards the great work. 

So today you find that from the 1950ís especially there was a monthly magazine that came out in America and elsewhere in the world, it was called the Scottish Freemasonic Journal.  It was the Scottish Rite and actually, the name of that magazine by them with their name on it was "The New Age".  They said we are bringing in a new age and the new age for the Aquarian Age was to bring in this perfect utopia.  The abolition of private property, everything run by the state basically, properly as they said, by the intelligentsia or hidden masters you know, etcetera, things like that.  And they said they would change the youth through revolution, cultural revolution.  They would destroy the old religions by bringing in the new, which is really a combination of them all including a lot of Hinduism and then they brought in eventually Wiccanism.

With the young people today the old-fashioned stuffy suit idea of Freemasonry doesnít work so well so they brought in Wiccanism which also has its three main degrees you see.  So they have many, theyíre very cleaver on what to do and keep recruiting people, etcetera.  Those who go into Wiccanism of course as they get older eventually go into the upper lodges. 

Neil:  Yeah.  This may be a silly question but does Wiccanism have anything to do with Wikipedia? 

Alan:  Well Iím pretty certain that itís a little tongue-in-cheek joke, sure, because you understand, what is Wikipedia?  It gives you whatís called the word, right?  Youíre looking up a word or whatever youíre looking up.  And thatís the old search; itís the lost word youíre looking for and so if you want to know what this means you look up Wikipedia.  So itís a Masonic thing.†

Neil:  Sorry I just had a chicken on the table here.  Itís just going off now.  {Laughs} The dogís chasing it away.† Yeah somebody asked in the chat box here they were talking about the degrees and Iíve heard you many times talking about, and somebodyís mentioned it here, the squaring of the head when you graduate.  Obviously thatís got something to do with it as well. 

Alan:  That represents the builderís hod.  If you see the builder going up with his bricks, thatís where he puts his hod in.  But the good strong masons of old used to have it on their head, and they put their bricks in it and theyíd climb the ladder.  And so it means youíre squared, youíve been squared.  The natural stone is a rolling stone, right?  A round stone.  And so youíre really natural, so what theyíre doing is making you artificial.  Theyíre in a way being blinded.  If you talk to Masons that are 33 degrees, and above by the way, who come out of it they will tell you that it takes a long time to start seeing the world in depth, whereas before they saw it in a kind of tunnel vision because it was shaped by Freemasonry. 

If you notice too on top of your little hat you have the little hanging tassel.  Thatís a limp penis by the way, if you donít know what that means.  {Laughs}  And so to an extent, to an extent youíve been kind of neutered.  Thatís another tongue-in-cheek joke in high Masonry.  Youíve been created to serve their system.  In other words youíve been dumbed down enough to serve their system with all of its taxations and cons and all the rest of it.

Neil:  Itís almost I suppose like when they put it on your head youíre putting a round peg into a square hole.  I donít know but somebody... What does it mean when...?  Somebody is asking does it mean anything when they move the tassel from one side to the other?  Iím assuming left to right.

Alan:  Well generally itís an unconscious thing even when they turn it can move, so it doesnít matter.  It depends on the length of it of course but generally it can go right around to the back or the front even you know.†

Neil:  Okay.  Okay we will go to the first piece of music and then weíll continue with this afterwards.  I think this is dedicated to Steve who is house ridden because he went to the wrong airport this morning to pick us up.† But this is from Maps and "You Will Find a Way". 

{Break ♫}

Neil:  Welcome back to Reality Bytes Radio and weíve got 25 to 9 in the U.K. here in the evening.  We still have our guest here, Alan Watt, and we were talking off air here about the revolutionary aspects of Freemasonry and basically how they go about the world well for many centuries I suppose and creating havoc and two sides of the dialectic I suppose to get what they want.Do you want to discuss that a little bit Alan?

Alan:  People really have no idea of the many wars that spread across the whole of Europe.  Even the time that Luther came out and just before him too how various groups had tried different things, a kind of pre-Protestant revolution you might call it.  And they amalgamated with other disaffected groups, there were even some high rabbinical groups involved that helped fund some of these revolutions and worked with them. 

So different sects or different people within sects would often come together to form a kind of coalition brotherhood.  And what they realized is that the Protestant idea, especially when it went to the Puritan idea, and Cromwell actually was part of this, it was more Judaic than it was Christian because they followed the Old Testament so much, the Protestant religion at that time, the Puritan type, because people always want laws and rules of life and you find them all more hammered out in the Old Testament than in the New you might say. 

And so those who were more fanatical gravitated towards the law side of things.  And the early Protestants were actually called Judaic by the Catholic and there were two or three people, or high rabbis in Amsterdam, who tried to get, against the wishes of many of their own congregations and followers, they tried to get groups going, a kind of brotherhood if you like of revolutionary ideas, and they were all for this idea of England becoming Puritan under Cromwell.

So there were an awful lot of different factions as I say involved in this.  There were also precursors of the Protestants.  You had the Bogomils, the Cathars, etcetera, from Southern France who had their own societies.  Many people say they go all the way back to the Templars but nobody really knows.  But these guys definitely had a brotherhood on the go, the Cathars and the Bogomils.  It was a kind of parallel Christianity.  As I say the whole idea was to throw out this idea of a dominant Catholic centralized authority over Christianity.  And bring in the one thing that folk could still understand, because thatís all they knew was Christianity, and bring out this new so-called benevolent system.  And maybe even down the road end Feudalism to an extent.  So it had a lot of good things going for it back then in a sense for the ordinary people who were all serfs and peasants.  A serf really is just a slave thatís bought and sold with the land.†

So a lot of folk joined it of course but they had to join the secret societies with their passwords, codes and so on in order to escape detection.  And that way they had some kind of backing.  There is nothing worse than being on you own as a revolutionary.  If you have other brothers or help around you where you can go into hiding or whatever and these people must take you into hiding because youíve sworn to help each other, then thereís more security in that for sure.  So thatís how the secret societies really took off big time. 

And then Switzerland was a big, big base for dissenters in England.  And they brought in lots of Catholic dissenters who were getting persecuted before that with Queen Elizabeth I, under her reign they killed thousands of Catholics in England.  They had concentration camps set up and about fifteen thousand of them were starved to death in different camps throughout England under the first, it was almost like a Stasi system that was set up by Queen Elizabeth I.  And a lot of them fled, the wealthier ones could flee to Switzerland which became a hotbed of counterrevolution.  Theyíd send their agents back over to England to try and bring in the Catholic Church again.†

So there were all these things on the go all over the region at that time, the whole part of Europe.  And dissenters on both sides went to Switzerland as a base where the fraternities flourished.

Neil:  I read a book about the Cathars a number of years ago, and yeah as you say they fled to the south of France.  Am I right in saying that they had quite a big kind of underground following down there? 

Alan:  Yes.  They had more than just an underground following, and youíll find that the Cathari and the Bogomils, itís all really the same group really in different areas you know.  And they went all the way through into even Bulgaria.  But they had their own townships and intergenerational religion and their own churches.  They copied the Catholic Church in some extent in that they believed in last rites, etcetera.  So their particular priests would go out and deliver the last rites over any kind of conditions, mountains, whatever, even in the wintertime.  They were really dedicated but they were also wealthy as well because they were trying to get exempt from taxes that went to the Catholic Church.

Many bishoprics, across the whole of Europe, would appoint bishops and people vied for bishoprics because they could then tax all the people who worked in them.  And the Bogomils and these people were exempt taxes so a lot of them became very wealthy merchants and so on.  And plus they accepted different faiths into them as well, including the Jewish faith.†

Neil:  Okay, if we move up to the present day, I mean obviously these societies, not just the Masons; I suppose there are many others possibly affiliated, possibly not.  Theyíve obviously become very, very influential.Would you say that they are at the peak of whatís going on?  Or are they somewhere kind of down below a little and there are other societies above them?

Alan:  Yeah, itís like Pike said, and this is the trick with Masonry too, most Masons are taught that there are three main degrees and once you become a master Mason thatís it all.  But itís not true.  There are side lodges youíre pulled off into if you have the right stuff you might say to go higher.  And so they groom people for jobs in politics, in high bureaucracy positions, diplomatic corps, things like that.  Itís a grooming procedure.  They select different people out of it to go higher.

Itís quite interesting too that in the lower degrees and that includes up to Master Mason, in the lower degrees, Pike called them the outer portico, in other words theyíre like a cover for the true Masonry.  The ones at the bottom think they know it all and all their acquaintances know theyíre Masons and they seem just like you, the good old boy type of thing, but they really donít know much at all.  They do get a lot of favors for being Masons.  They can escape petty bureaucracy, they can get instant bank loans generally, things like that as Master Masons, but they really donít know the higher things.

So as you go up the degrees in Masonry what they do technically is atheise you along the way.  And if you go up high enough then they bring in the religion they believe in you see.  And itís a very old idea, the religion, and that does go back to ancient times whether they revived it or copied it we donít know.  But there is a higher religion there.  And thatís where they talk about the hidden masters, the superior ones, and all this kind of thing.

A hidden master basically is someone in the old reincarnation business who doesnít have to come back, heís been perfected.  This all goes back to Gnosticism even.  But heís perfected so he only comes back into the human form to help humanity as you might call it a Fisher King or a benevolent dictator, a Solomon type figure.  And these are the hidden masters that they say eventually they will bring forth to the world when the world is ready.  In other words when they have conquered the world and used democracy and then thrown it away, discard it once its use is over, they will bring in a new authoritarian society basically, a benevolent dictatorship as they call it.†

Neil:  Yeah.  I suppose, I mean the ones we see on the televisions, the Lagardeís of this world, the Blairís, the Cameronís, I mean theyíre obviously not at the top.  I mean obviously not.

Alan:  No, no.

Neil:  But do you think they actually believe they are?

Alan:  Oh, thatís the beauty of it, as you mentioned before Pike said himself you can go through different degrees and secrets and all the rest of it only to be told way down the road now weíve told you one level of secrecy, now hereís the real reason for these things happening.  And that goes all the way up to the top.  You keep getting told, not necessarily that the ones were false but theyíre low meanings, here is a higher meaning, and then there is a higher meaning after that, and so on.  Thatís what...  As theyíre testing you because once you get near the top you start to clue into where itís going.  And where itís going for a lot of people wouldnít be very nice, appointing this new system over the world of expert management you might say, and tossing complete democracy and rights right out the window on the way.

Neil:  Yeah so I mean obviously there is a kind of filtration system if you like and the higher you go the more they may ask you to do or the more you actually do willingly.

Alan:  Exactly; theyíll bring in the confidence.  The one thing youíre taught in Masonry is to instantly obey a command by a superior; any morality you have over what they ask you to do must be put to the side all together and not enter into your action.  You must do it immediately.  So itís instant obedience and do not ask questions. 

Now you ask any politician, you watch any politician and how they get up the ladder, I mean they keep their ears open as they start and they go up the ladder, but they know what questions not to ask.  Thatís how you get ahead in life.  Itís the same with the police and the police force or anything like that.  You donít ask your superiors for answers, obey, obey, obey, and then youíre a good Mason you know, basically thatís it.

Neil:  Okay.  A couple of questions in the chat box here.  The Knights of Malta, are they Masons?

Alan:  Yeah.

Neil:  They are, yeah?

Alan:  Well they go all the way back.  Even when you go back into the Catholic...  Remember too there were orders before we heard of the term Masonry, there were orders of, like Knights of the Garter is an order for instance.  There was also the Catholic Church that had orders of monks and they had the orders of the Knights of Jerusalem you know, that were sent over there initially, the warrior type monks and the Templars that were sent over to protect travelers going to the Middle East when at that time the Catholic Church had its seat or a seat in the Middle East in Jerusalem once again.  And that lasted for quite some time after the Crusades.

So those orders still exist.  They were warrior monks.  And the Templars eventually fell out of favor gradually because the other troops that were over there from all of Europe noticed that when it came to two or three major battles storming castles held by Islamics that the Templars were delaying this breaking through the walls and they seemed to be almost working for the Muslims.  And of course they found out later that the Templars brought everybody inóand modern Masonry does too, it doesnít matter what religion or ethnic group or whatever you come from, they will take in someone who swears to be a brother and takes all the oaths.  And they had done that; the Templars had done that in fact. 

Neil:  Well I mean like you just said there about you know instantly obeying orders.  Itís almost a military kind of thing anyway, you know donít ask questions, and forget your morality.  You know weíre going to shoot that guy over there, go shoot him and thatís it, no questions asked.†

Alan:  Thereís no questions asked and the key to success as I say is not to ask, even when youíre really dying to know, donít ask why.† And if you do that then you can be trusted to go up higher you see. 

Neil:  Okay.  Somebody is asking me about the thirteen families, I think that Iíll mention them here, House of Borgia, House of Brickspeer, House of Somalia, House of Osini, House of Conti, House of Chigi, House of Colona, House of Amazi, House of Medici, House of Catani, House of Hamphilly, House of Estim, House of Aldobrandini.  I mean the only one I would have heard of, well I guess a couple of them Iíve heard of, Borgias, Brickspeers and Medici but the rest of them I wouldnít have heard of at all.  I mean would you go along with that as them being kind of up there as it were?

Alan:  Theyíll be up there.  You see a lot, in the past, you got to remember too Freemasonry at one time was not for the common man.  It was really for the middle class and for knights, etcetera, thatís why they were dying to get knighthoods, etcetera, to get into it.  It wasnít until they needed the numbers for revolution that they gave it to the working class man.  And they lied to them too.  They said weíre all equal on the lodge floor.  Well thatís fine but outside youíre not.  If youíre poor when you go in there, youíre still poor when you come out.  So they promise to help, etcetera, etcetera, but I know many Masons who left it and that was their complaint is that they were hypocrites and liars and they helped the upper echelons as opposed to helping the working class people.  Now what they did do is bring out a lot of unions to help the working class and that did work for a long time until they destroyed the unions.  But if you look at all the old union emblems, and marchings and so on, youíll see all the Masonic emblems on their banners, all the old unions.  So it did a lot of good too in those days. †

Neil:  Somebody mentioned earlier the emblem of Donegal as a Masonic emblem as well.  And of course thatís the only county north of the, if you draw a straight line across from Belfast I suppose itís kind of north of there.Which is the only northern county thatís actually in the south as it were.  But in terms of today, how can I put it, I mean do you think that the whole thing about Freemasons will come to a point where itís no longer necessary and the people way above that will just say okay weíve achieved what weíve achieved and we no longer need these people?  As you say they lie to them anyway and they think of them as just there to be used as such.  I mean do you think that day will ever come where another society comes to the forefront as it were?  I mean Freemasons are put forward and everybody seems to think that thatís the be all and end all and thatís who is running things.  But I think that itís fairly obvious that theyíre not or weíd never have heard of them. 

Alan:  Yes.† Well eventually itís possible that they might not need them, the ones at the top, the real society at the top Iíd say that does have the real histories of it all and knows its whole history and archives.  Those guys will keep going Iím sure because there must always be a band at the top of what they call wild men, meaning that their brains havenít been tampered with by massive indoctrination as we all get.  They run the starship Earth you might say and so they must remain wild and have their capabilities for decisive action. 

But those, all the helpers down below them, itís possible in the future as things become more electronic, even voting and so on, they wonít need them.  I mean if you go into Canada to vote youíll find itís mainly the women who are behind it at the ballots and so on.  And they all have their Eastern Star badges on you know.  So they count all the votes.  So the Masonic guys all count the votes regardless of where it is across the British Empire.  Things like that. 

So right now theyíre awfully handy, the same with the police force.  I mean you know the police really today is a standing army.  Thatís what they are.  Theyíre a military force.  And itís got worse since 9/11 of course and the excuse of terrorism to build up this military force for the great change which is to come.  And the great change is where they eventually, since theyíve had a great time using democracy and getting us all to go along with it and work for it and strive for it, now they will toss it out of the window because you canít have that in a terroristic age where authority must act quick and decisive without public complaints, etcetera.  Theyíre bringing in an authoritarian age so youíll still need the police forces and the people in the army.  And but definitely in the police forces to go along with any order theyíre given.  And plus itís a great insurance thing because youíve got, I mean the cops always rig their books together to make sure they all have the same story when something happens.  And so it really is a great insurance knowing your brother policeman is going to stand up for you and lie if necessary. 

Neil:  You mentioned the ladies behind the counter counting the votes, and of course itís often been said that it doesnít matter who you vote for, it matters who counts the votes.

Alan:  Thatís what Stalin said.

Neil:  Yeah.  There you have it.  Somebody is asking do they really worship Saturn, and kill babies?  I suppose thatís a basic way of putting it, pedophilia, etcetera.  I mean is that the thing or is that something different all together?

Alan:  Itís a curious thing.  You understand that a lot of Masonry is taken from, it was taken from Talmudism and Kabbalah, it was a Jewish thing.  They took a lot from that.  The Kabbalah is esoteric Judaism, a kind of mystic Judaism.  Not all Jews are into it but lots of them are too.  Mainly in the 60ís and 70ís that came to the fore when the whole New Age really was exploded across the world.  The balance they call it, the balance, there is no such thing as good and evil, there is only a downside and an upside, etcetera, etcetera.  And for every downside something benefits, even from the downside, so itís Kabbalistic in origin. 

John Dee talked about it because he said that he studied Hebrew from three Jewish guys from the east.  And thatís another symbol, a lodge brother, you know.  And he was taught Hebrew and he went into what he thought was demonology at that time, a very esoteric tradition of calling down demons.  But also some of the laws that they had adopted too came from Talmudic instruction which is a...  Modern Judaism is not old Judaism or Hebrewism, itís a much later development.  But a lot of that went into the origins of Freemasonry to do with the Entered Apprentice, that was the building of Solomonís Temple, when Hiram the King of Tyre sent his builders to Jerusalem to build a temple and he then initiated into the craft, it says in the Old Testament, the apprentice Jews.  And thatís why even today the nickname for an Entered Apprentice is a Jewish Apprentice in Masonic lodges.  So thatís one of the claims they used to make as to how old it was, but regardless you will see little hints of it in ancient times to the present.

So the building of Solomonís temple required secrecy to learn the craft of building and so on.  And then but the higher speculative Mason of today believes in building yourself.  You are the temple.  To an extent you are Solomon you know.  Solomon is three suns, itís sol, om, and on, in three different languages.  Sun, sun, sun, the triple sun, you are Hermes Trismegistus, three times great.  So thatís the whole idea behind it.  Youíre building yourself, youíre perfecting yourself. 

In the alchemic age and the outer portico of alchemy, everyone knows what they were into; they were turning base metals into gold.  That meant that the base metal was a rough unhewn rock which was you, the peasant sort of thing, and by the magic of chemical transformation they would turn you into gold.  They would perfect man himself.  That was the whole secret behind alchemy.†

Neil:  So just to finish off, I mean who in your opinion today apart from Michael of Kent, would you say is at the forefront of the modern Freemasonic movement?

Alan:  They all work together.  Today one of their main lodges is in Israel now.  And I noticed a few years back the Grand Master for the Toronto lodge, who is Jewish, he is the Grand Master over there and for I think it was Ontario or Canada, Iím not quite sure if itís both.  But they have a big lodge there and many of the lodges, and French lodges, and English lodges, and so on, ones that used to appear to oppose each other for revolutionary strategy are all working together today.  In fact many of them in the York Rite will accept the Knights of Malta in for instance or the John of Jerusalem that used to be supposed bitter enemies at one time.  They can bring them into lodge meetings now.  So theyíre all working together.

Neil:  I was up in Edmonds about a year of so ago, six months ago maybe, and there is a Masonic lodge there with a nice obelisk outside it and the building was up for sale and Iím thinking where they were going to go next.  {Laughs}They were moving somewhere but there was no kind of indication of where they were moving to.  But the building it was interesting, there were quite a lot of windows on the ground floor, and they were all blacked out, you couldnít see anything.

Alan:  Yeah, thatís it.  They call it the church with no windows.

Neil:  Ah well, there you go then.  Weíve come to the end of the hour and thanks very much Alan for your time and your knowledge and we shall hear from you again next month I suppose. 

Alan:  Sure.

Neil:  I donít know what the topicís going to be; nobodyís suggested one.  But weíll come up with something Iím sure.†

Alan:  As I say itís a vast topic to even cover in an hour.  You canít really do it.  But itís got such a long history.  If you go into the revolutionary aspects of it down through the ages youíll be fascinated though.  Yeah, itís fascinating. 

Neil:  Yeah now weíre talking about trying to do kind of short half-hour programs on Awake TV Network basically as an introduction to the you know multitudes of subjects there are and then let people take it themselves from there because as you say itís vast, you couldnít do it on the radio for three, four hours because people would just switch off.  But they have to really do it for themselves.

Alan:  You could even take different people in Masonic history as spies for instance and do a ten-hour show just on one.  I mean there is so much information there.†

Neil:  Okay well we will call it a day there and weíll go to the next piece of music which is for Paula who is over from sunny Florida and listening in the other room there.  This is Imagine Dragons and "Radioactive".

{Closing Music ♫}