Jan. 19, 2015 (#1486)


Neil:† Welcome to Reality Bytes Radio on the 19th of January 2015.† We have our guests on today, Alan Watt and Thomas Sheridan, and we are going to be discussing the Music Industry.† Are you there guys?

Alan:† Yep, Iím here.

Thomas:† Hi Neil.††

Neil:† Hi Thomas.† Good you are both clear.† Great, okay I suppose briefly just introduce yourself and your actual experience in the music industry in about you know a couple of minutes if you can and then we will take it from there.† Anybody can go first.†

Alan:† Yeah well I could start if you want.†

Neil:† Yep, sure.

Alan:† Yeah, I think everyone tends to go into the music industry pretty young.† And you have your basic ideas, everyone else has, of what itís all about which is generally all completely wrong.† And if you are any good at all you are picked pretty quickly by the image-makers and then you get into the real inner core gradually, there are definitely different layers of it naturally depending on what your abilities are.† But if you are good at songwriting and music construction, etcetera, you can get picked to go up the ladder a little bit.† And again itís kind of an apprenticeship because you find out; you are told really, what they are after.† Music isnít spontaneous as we are taught it is and it just comes out of nowhere by a little garage band.† Whatís to be popular is planned in advance by a machinery.† I call it a machinery of experts that run the culture business.† And it really is a culture business.† And make no mistake it has nothing to do with spontaneity as such.† Itís very well directed.† They know where they want to take the culture.† How they want to alter culture, thatís a big, big part of it.† And I guess from really from the, itís actually earlier than even the 60ís, but from the 60ís onwards they knew what they wanted to do with altering the western society all together, not just movies but definitely music.† Music is a very, very ancient technique of changing and getting through to the youth especially, for many reasons and even for using for revolution in ancient times and even through the 17 and 1800ís through opera even.†

So you find, you start to catch on to whatís what.† And if you are cleaver enough youíll catch on not to sign your name off the bat to anything at all because you get to know the different bands especially if you are doing session work and things like that.† Many of the bands actually are put together out of just a lineup of guys that are picked.† The cover story thatís brought in how theyíve known each other for years is generally very often fake, not always.† And they are given lots of publicity if they want to give them a hit or two, or maybe more in fact.†

But the direction of the music is always, and whatís going to get bought for a song for instance, is told.† You are told what they want basically right down to political correctness as they update society right down to you canít mention gender specific words in a song.† And so "her" has to go and etcetera, until it couldnít be sung by anybody.† This comes from the top believe you me.† Itís not so much what the people would like in a bar if it was all left to bar music or club music, itís whatís going to be made popular and famous from the top down.† And my experiences really were quite something right down to seeing at one point a panel of people at the BBC in London who picked what was going to be the number 1 for the week or the next month even.† And there were a whole bunch of people around the table all about middle aged, some of them older, dressed in tweed, including the women.† And you think they have nothing in common with the particular music thatís getting pushed but they were the ones who were deciding what they were going to push to be number 1, 2, 3, etcetera, for the next coming week and then the month as well.† And it was astonishing to get this insight into how the whole machinery actually works.†

The idea is to get a lot of youthful guys especially at that time and now it is women too, young girls, to try to emulate what they see as a star.† Itís almost like winning the lotto.† The working class people are taught that you might get up there if you are good at sports or something like that, you might get a one in a million chance of getting up there making money.† But so all the youthful characters join in, it doesnít matter what kind of music is getting pushed out, and they try to emulate it thinking if they emulate it theyíll simply just get up there and be stinking rich, have all the women, and all the rest of it and have a great time.† And it doesnít work quite like that at all.†

The guys who pick you up, the big managers at the top, the ones who work for the record companies immediately get you right down to signing on their contracts.† You must produce so many albums a year, things like that.† Plus theyíll put you on tour and you are worked off your feet because you can hardly get any sleep because you travel, youíre doing live shows to promote, and at the same time too you have to put your albums out as well.† Often they canít do it so what they do instead is theyíll, if they have an album due, theyíll hire someone to write their music for them.† Youíll often sell it for peanuts by the way, it depends who comes to you and asks you, you know, for 12 to 16 songs and then it goes under the bandís name of course.† And in actual fact someone else, not even the person who wrote it, owns the copyright for it all.† Thatís very, very common.

There are also places they can go to in certain countries, like France.† Paris has got a place where a lot of musicians can go there and in a little club you might say and you put your songs in and someone will buy them for a big band or whatever it happens to be, or for a solo artist they are going to make popular.† At the time you donít know who they are going to give it to so you donít know how much to ask for.† So there is not really as much money in it as you would think.† So the whole system is really rigged from the very, very top.† Itís a completely closed system at the top, this machinery, and thatís how I found out as I went through the many, many years, thatís what I found over and over again.† It is nothing like it is presented to the public.†

Do you have anything to add to that?

Neil:† Okay.† Okay.† Thomas what was your start off and experience?

Thomas:† Yeah I would basically concur with everything Alan said.† Now my first encounter with the music industry as opposed to being a guitar player in bands of the industry now was, I was about eighteen and I was walking down the street in Dublin with a guitar case in my hand having just come back from a rehearsal with the band I was with at the time.† And this well dressed quite nice guy, a guy Iíd say was in his early 30ís, very well spoken, obviously highly educated, a guy from money background.† And this is something that when I went to New York I found the same.† That the people, there is a strange aristocratic subculture in all this within management, within the music industry, in these promoters and king makers and star makers.† And he was very well spoken, obviously highly educated, and he told me would you be interested in joining a band heís putting together.† And I was like, yes.† I mean I was very impressionable and very gullible and very young and naive back then.† And I had a few talks with him over the phone and I met him for coffee a few times and he told me that, I was telling him, look Iím not that good of a guitar player.† He said you donít have to worry about it.† Thatís not important, you look good.† And the first thing weíll do is we will do a photo shoot with my wife who was a photographer.† And so they were putting a band together.† There was no interest in really the standard of my musicianship.† I was picked purely on the basis that I was young and pretty and I had a guitar.† And they were putting together basically a Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet, type group to cash in, in kind of a business sense, in that way.

Now when I met them they were very, very charming and these people are actually still heavily involved in entertainment although they have moved into theater today.† But they were, you know, they were part of that whole entertainment industrial complex.† And they were very charming, but there were times I could see that they would switch the charm off and they would be kind of cold and hard.† Like I could remember one time when they were planning the group.† I left before the thing actually took off but it never went anywhere, it fell apart.† But she was, his wife, was giving me basically, and this ties into what Alan was saying, she was giving me information and she said, "When we put you out there", she said, "...you just keep your f...iní mouth closed.† Say nothing and only say what we tell you to say."† And that was a real kind of a wake up call for me because you see before that point I thought like playing in a band or being in the music industry was like being a footballer.† You know if you can play football and you were good at it you got to play for a team, you may become professional, you may become very rich, and you may be very successful.† That was the beginning when I, that was the point where I realized that the music industry did not function that way.† You were basically a product.† And your product was placement, was putting you in the right delivery package that they were putting for the pubic.† And that was a continuum, both that, the idea that a musician or singer was simply a product in a product placement package coupled with the fact that the people behind this that Iíve met as I progressed through it all tend to be highly educated, from top universities, Cambridge, Ivy League schools in America, and so on.† And thatís basically it; from that point on I realized that the whole thing was basically a theater that was designed.† That fame and success and accolades was totally based on doing exactly what you were told and keeping your mouth shut and doing what they wanted from you.††

Neil:† Yeah I mean you...

Alan:† I could add to that if I might.† Yeah, Iíve been present in the groups they helped too some of these people for bands, etcetera.† And I got to know the ones... You see there are different ranks, itís almost on a need to know basis to the different levels that you get into.† And I got to know some of them and Iíd seen them already pick stars, to make stars.† And what they had for one guy who had a few hits, he was told where he was picked out of a lineup of guys who all had to be the same height.† They wanted only guys that were a certain height and build to turn up for the auditions.† And they already had all the drawings of what he was going to wear.† This leather outfit, very tight fitting, diamond bracelets on his wrists and things like that.† Right down to the posture he would hold the mic at.† They all had to have a gimmick, a shtick you see.† Itís all done beforehand, before they even pick the person that is going to go out there and who is going to do the acting you might say.† And eventually they picked one of them, I knew him, he was a club singer.† He was pretty good at being a club singer and I met him afterwards too.† And he was told he would make three hits and then he would just fade away, etcetera.† The songs were already written in advance, right down to the timing of when they would be released, every six months or whatever it was and thatís really how itís done.

Iíve been present too when they picked people for say London rock musicals, things like that.† And Iíve been involved in writing some of that stuff.† But itís nothing like the people are actually taught at the bottom level.† You are kept in utter ignorance.† Thatís the way they want it.† But there is more than that to it.† There is a big massive social agenda behind it.† And that got me interested in finding out what is this big machinery behind it all.† Why is it so intense, the control of it all?† Why donít they let people at the very bottom put out their own stuff and see where it goes by itself?† No, they want to lead everybody and actually what it does is it kills originality at the bottom level because everyone starts to copy you see.†

Now they had already tried this.† There is a whole history to it.† They tried this with the folk music era.† The revival of the folk music started, as you know in New York.† It was heavily communistic.† And they set up camps across the U.S. and Canada and Britain too where students could go and get trained and picked if they are all kind of Marxist or Trotskyist as they liked to call it back then in the early 60ís and they trained them.† And they also had managers who would turn up there and they would pick the ones who they were going to promote in the folk business.†††

And I remember there was a famous scene where they had the big folk festival with Bob Dylan.† Bob Dylan was also groomed for years for his particular part in all of this to change the culture for the counterculture they called it.† And everything at that time was acoustic.† It was almost, it became a religion, it was acoustic.† And there were some bands there with electric guitars at the time but it hadnít caught on yet because it wasnít pushed.† And so during that one concert he pulled out his electric guitar and started playing for the first time.† So when Bob Dylan, who they already made a star with acoustic, and I mean, made a star because a lot of his songs werenít even his.† There was a shock in the whole folk music era you know like a traitor had happened.† What do you do when a star is now a traitor?† But in actual fact he was leading the way for them all to go into purely electronic.† And some of the guys, even the guys from The Weavers, who were also part of this big communistic counterculture, and I mean communistic.† They wanted a kind of communist, not quite the same as the Soviet System, they wanted this society to come in and it was getting funded by the way from the very top with professors from the university by governmental money and heavily involved was MI5 at a very high level in Britain and the CIA in the U.S. especially.†

They got the idea you see from during World War II, what were they going to do with a post war Germany and a post war Japan?† And they put teams of people at work to decide what kind of culture to bring in.† And how is culture guided and created and so on.† Well itís always music, movies, dramas and things like that.† And young folk emulate it as well as what you are gong to teach them through education.† And it was so successful that they thought theyíd also use it on the West because the whole world was to change.† Youíre still thinking nationalistic but the CIA and these boys were internationalists from the very beginning.† It was to bring in a world culture, but a directed culture of people who would behave and do what they wanted them to do and not cause waves and just go along with the flow.† Thatís what it was.† So if they directed all culture, all thought you might say, emotion and so on, you could control a whole world this way.† And so they adapted that and brought it into the States under the Communistic League.† And believe you me it wasnít the Soviets that were guiding this, it was inside the U.S., very high rich people.† The Rockefellers were involved heavily in fact.† His different foundations, the brothers, the three brotherís foundations funded an awful lot of this stuff down to the buildings they would use, where they would be taught and everything else.† And their big camps for teaching students what the agenda was.†

And thatís what confused the people, they always thought in left verses right.† They couldnít understand that above all of this is one system controlling both sides of it all.† And but music was an awfully, awfully important part.† And so what they did to change it over from the ones who were pushing the communistic free love and all of this kind of thing, to destroy families, etcetera, letís all be happy and one, they brought in all the electronic stuff and they created Laurel Canyon for instance in California and Frank Zappa was set up there.† And Laurel Canyon, this was to guide the whole music industry for the whole of the U.S.† And top established stars were brought in and other ones, people Iíve hardly heard of, were brought in and were made famous there.† And The Mamas and The Papas went there to learn their stuff.† Frank Zappa ended up kind of running the show.† He was a big guru there eventually.† And youíll find that the big players who were given authority by the CIA in the Pentagon to run this whole counterculture, Stewart Brand and people like that, who was into cybernetics and counterculture, etcetera, and a whole bunch of these people were pushing LSD as well.† LSD was getting thrown out by the bucket loads literally on tours with the group that preceded the Grateful Dead.† There is a whole history to this.† Folk think it just evolved all by itself and nothing, nothing is further from the truth.

Iím sure most of the readers and listeners know that the LSD experiments were always led by the Military Industrial Complex for control purposes, to see what it did and so on.† The CIA ran experiments with LSD, full time experiments, hiring prostitutes all over the U.S., having cameras in all of the prostituteís rooms and so on, houses, and theyíd bring in all these johns, thousands and thousands over many years to see the effect as the prostitute would slip different drugs into their drink including LSD.† I mean why so much?†† It was amazing and then they brought out a different guy, I think it was the guy who was involved with the previous group to the Grateful Dead, that actually pushed the LSD from a bus.† And it was, The Merry Pranksters, it was called.† And these professors went along with them like Stewart Brand and so on.†

These guys were all top military guys, Stewart Brand, and Kesey was another guy too.† He went around with him as well.† He was also military.† They were dishing out bucket loads of LSD and promoting this whole free culture thing, so much so that the Unabomber, if you remember the Unabomber, he knew these professors and these guys who were top authors and star makers.† He knew these guys who worked in universities and so on and who were directing this.† And they had experimented on him when he was a student in some experiments.† And when he realized what the whole agenda was to be, was to literally bomb out a whole generation, to completely destroy all the morals, all the culture that was to bring in a new manmade planned culture for everyone, he thought it was horrific.† And thatís what started him off in fact when he was a professor himself.† So thatís why he attacked certain people.† And if you look at the names of the people who he was attacking, these were the very guys who are involved with the military.† They were given military hangars to experiment with the strobe lights, drugs, and so on, and then get a youth in to watch them dancing to see if they would end up losing all inhibitions and have literally orgies and things like that, to see if that would work.† Then they could put it on the whole population.† This was an incredible massive experiment that was going on.†

But they had learned it all as I say from the guys who were put in charge of Americaís Cultural Cold War.† Thatís what they called it against say Russia, but definitely against Germany.† That was their big testing bed, and then Japan as well.† And they said if it works there, and you can literally shape a whole culture to be obedient and so on, we can use a different method to make them obedient and so on in the West but use some of the same tactics.

So that really is how they, itís so involved actually you could write stacks of books on it.† But Iíve seen it at work.† And Iíve been pulled in at times as well where bands couldnít, couldnít keep up and get their albums out for their contract.† If they didnít do, produce and so on, theyíd get threatened with lawsuits.† And what actually happened generally was they simply worked for free for the next few years to pay off what would have been supposedly the claim from the lawsuit.† And theyíd pull you in, or pull me in or some other guy, and youíd have to go in and write their stuff for them and arrange their music and sometimes play their tracks for them and even play most of the music for the whole so called band.† And you got paid a set fee.† And even then I refused to go through contract.† The only thing you could do is sign a nondisclosure so you wouldnít say that you ever had anything to do with it.† But you got a set fee and that was it and that suited me fine because I wasnít owned like these guys were all owned.††

Neil:† Thomas?

Thomas:† Yeah.† When pop music was really starting to mean something in peopleís lives.† And that was when the music industry was really taking off.† Thatís when you had the growth of things like the School of Performing Arts in New York, places like Julliard, and governments taking a strong interest in this.† And they were both very heavily and still are influenced by the New School in lower Manhattan.† Now the New School was basically the Frankfurt Institution or the Frankfurt School transported to the United States.† The purpose of this was not to harness up and coming talent in pop music.† You see we always, what Alan was saying about Laurel Canyon and thatís true in the folk music.† You forget that pop music has been very, very engineered too from day one, even more so.† And places like the School of the Performing Arts, this was not to develop talent, this was to get people at a young age, we are talking about high school age now, who were say good singers, good songwriters, had an ability to actually reach people, theyíd be spotted very, very quickly.† Theyíd be put into these schools and they would get a highly academic education into music that really was not necessary because what they were basically doing was pop music.† They were just singers and songwriters that were developing.† But their main thing was to do two things, was to filter out any one of them who probably had a mind of their own and would actually probably write pop songs that could actually you know make people think for a change.† And on the other hand to get the ones who would actually finish these high schools like the School of Performing Arts which we know from the TV Show and the Movie, "Fame", were to be to socially engineer them.† If you watched you know to have them make sure that when they graduated as a pop singer they were actually singing about themes.† Basically cultural Marxism delivered in a very kind of namby-pamby manner.† And to produce songwriters who would write lyrics and themes within songs that would actually apply to the social agenda going forward.† Particularly to dumb down, to take any kind of deep meaning out of lyrics or do anything like that.† To reduce them down to sort of childish metaphors or kind of simplified emotionally mushy statements that have no real depth to them while wrapping it up in this idea that theyíre somehow, theyíd be elect.† They are the best of the best in America.† They have been brought to Julliard, theyíve been brought to the New School, theyíve been brought to the School of Performing Arts to be the best and to be the elite.† And then they would play on their narcissism and their egos, of kids at an age when you are narcissistic and highly egotistical and bring them up this way.† And then if any of them had any success from these schools which in reality very few do.† And the ones who did have success from these schools were people who had parents that were already famous, such as Liza Minnelli, her mother was Judy Garland.† But anyone else really just ended up probably just playing guitar in an off Broadway production or they were lucky if they got into an orchestra.

And it was a way for the establishment to grab and steal and corrupt just like they have done with the visual arts.† To take the ones that really have something to say and have them working for them and to also filter out anyone who could be a potential troublemaker.†

From very, very early on the music industry was instantly recognized as a social engineering tool and thatís why they integrated it so much into education.† I mean Harvard, you know Harvard University, has a big performing arts section.† And thatís the same thing there, they donít want to take people that could probably be top singers and to move them into things like Broadway shows and stuff like that where they will never really say anything.† Or theyíll be singing Stephen Sondheim lyrics which will just promote the agenda as well.† Itís really; people have no idea how deep it is.† Itís very, very deep.† There are no accidents in the pop music industry.

Alan:† Itís even older actually than that because Hollywood in the 30ís was putting out a lot of musicals of its day and movies.† And so these movies again really affected, they are aimed at the young.† Itís always aimed at the youth you see.† And there was one, I canít remember the name of it, but itís a song and dance type musical and you see a young couple at the end of a table, a long table, and forming an arch.† They are at the very end of the table forming an arch all along the table as other young dancers, stacks of them in a long row with their legs apart, and the young couple are looking through between their legs to the camera.† And the song they sang was, "Stay Young and Beautiful if You Want to be Loved".† The message was to separate the genders because when you are young you think that you are always going to be young.† You canít relate to the older.† That was the whole message because we are going to give you a new...† This is your world now and you are going to lead it.† That was the message.† And of course they were actually led by the nose quite simply.† But they didnít know it, they were egotistical, etcetera.† But that was the message.† And they put lots of movies out like that at that particular era.† Then during World War II they really hyped it up with the kind of Jazz, kind of Jazz sound, and the kind of early swing you might call it where they could swing the girls over their back, they would wear shorter skirts and you could see everything once they went over the guys back.† That was to get the sexual thing going.† And the idea was that if you could destroy monogamy, a person who would just simply team up and mate and bond with the person they were going to have sex with, then they could literally control every individual as an individual instead of having to go against the whole family unit.† That was always the enemy of centralized government.† Families are simply a small tribe, when they go after one person the whole family can stand up.† If they have a lot of culture in common then the whole community will stand up for them against the government.† And that had to be destroyed.† And lots of books were written in the early 1900ís about this problem -- How to control all of the people and to eliminate that type of problem with families standing up with common culture?† Destroy the common culture, isolate the individuals, and then itís easy to do.† But always go for the youth, because the youth if you keep feeding them egotistical ideas they will believe you.† Yeah, this is our time.† This is, you know, talking about "My Generation", like the song goes, and things like that.† These were all put out on purpose for a very, very big agenda.† Itís easier to lead young and egotistical and ignorant youngsters, because we are all ignorant when we are teenagers and in our early 20ís.† We have no wisdom.† We havenít matured yet.† But you think you have.† You think you know it all.† And itís easy to be guided by guys they put out there to be your leaders and the guys you are taught to admire that say the cool things or even obnoxious things, etcetera, to scare society.† That was well understood by psychologists that were well working onboard with this big cultural agenda.†

And then back in the 60ís again the Royal Institute for International Affairs, which is the homeland for the Council on Foreign Relations, had an international meeting in London.† And you can see the old newspapers from the day where the whole idea was who is going to guide the culture of the world, would it be Britain or London that does it through their movie studio, Pinewood, etcetera, or Hollywood?† And it also included all the music industry for the future.† And at the end of about a two week meeting and many, many speeches they came up with the idea that the culture industry, the government of Britain through its culture industry department and the U.S. cultural division as well from government, the federal government, and local, even state too, they also have a cultural grants hand out.† They would make this happen mainly inside the U.S. and Britain would follow.† But they still would have some coming from Britain to get the people onboard so they came out of course with the Beatles and the Stones and things like that.†

Theo Adorno, from the Frankfurt School, remember he was heavily involved with the setting up of the Beatlesí image and so on.† He tried beforehand to bring atonal music in.† I was amazed when I traveled across Europe to hear this old jazz stuff.† And it was kind of atonal jazz.† And that was from the beatnik era.† They tried the beatnik era before they brought in pop music and rock music.† That was the first longhaired guys, they all wore long pullovers and had sweaters on.† And they were always stoned out of their skull.† They lived in these dingy clubs, dark, but they were all very cool.† They were all cool cats you see and played sax, etcetera.† And I listened to this kind of atonal creative jazz that literally I couldnít stand for more than a minute.† But it was to destroy all the culture that was before.† And that was out at the same time as they were destroying art itself, you know the painters, and bringing in these, the Picasso stuff.† And making a big revival of Picasso to make everything disjointed so you had nothing solid and nice to hold up your culture, to hold on to.† Everything was to give you this feeling of total change or even falling, falling through time you might say, into something new, which you couldnít understand.† This was a massive psychological operation.† And then when you added the drugs to it, the drugs were meant literally to make them far more suggestible and incredible studies were done on them while they were under LSD just to see if they could still function.† What they really wanted was some kind of drug that would make them function well with still mathematics and so on but be emotionally flat.† But they couldnít get that with LSD so they tried various other drugs and concoctions too.† And they are still doing it through regular pharmacy.

But itís fascinating to see the massive machinery involved in creating not just the music stars but the acting stars as they call them because the people follow the stars.† Itís an ancient saying.† They put them up in front of you, all the youth will follow that man or that woman and youíll want to be like them, dress like them, and act like them, etcetera.† They are the new role models, which supersede the family, the mother and the dad, and so on.† And when theyíre cool and even kind of nasty, or beyond being the cheeky level, the youngsters will use those terms too and to be cool and have shock value, etcetera.† Then when they came...† I remember talking to Gerry Marsden.† And he did "Ferry Cross the Mersey", old stuff in the early 60ís and he was an old fellow when I talked to him.† And he said, he watched it, I mean he was through it.† He went through it and sang some good songs at the time, very popular, but they were standard songs.† He was talking about his home and the ferry across the Mersey, things like that, and he said thatís how it used to be in the clubs.† The folk went because it was still man and woman meet up and so on and often they would end up getting married.† Thatís how you met people, a mate to get married, he said, and it was happy youngster stuff.† There was nothing nasty about it, counterculture, or anything.† And it had a romance about it you see.† But when they brought in this new music and eventually gone into the rock, that was out the window.† The whole idea remember was to separate the bonding aspect from mating up with a partner and simply have sex for sexís sake.† And once that happened enough times they wouldnít bond for life with anybody and theyíd have no children basically.†

So itís fascinating to see this and what happened then in the 60ís was what they tried in the 1920ís before by the way during the prohibition era.† Before prohibition there werenít so many young people at all that went into bars.† It wasnít an exciting thing to do.† Itís only when you make it a bad thing to do and you have to sneak in and know Joe at the door and so on and get snuck in to drink this illegal booze that it became a place that you wanted to go.† You see you are bad and you are a renegade.† And they also brought in the mini skirt then, in the 20ís, for the Charleston dance and so on.† They promoted the sex and massive drinking then, and brought coke in as well by the way at the same time in big quantities in these clubs to get them hooked on coke.† It didnít work because there was so much sexual fallout from it, from unwanted children and venereal diseases and so on.† They didnít have penicillin remember.† They didnít have the pill.† And so they had this big fallout.† It just didnít take with the general population.† So they simply went back to the drawing board and brought it out in a better fashion once they had the pill, they had the antibiotics.† They could cure some of the diseases theyíd catch, not all of them mind you, and itís been a smash hit ever since.† And itís pushed from the top.†

In London you think about the whole establishment of the BBC in the 60ís.† No one worked in the BBC without coming from Oxford from the top to the bottom.† You had to be from Oxford so it was kept within the establishment you see.† It was a government owned station.† And yet the BBC with their Oxford accents brought out the guys at the beginning to promote pop music as they called it.† And they brought guys on who were falling off their chairs that they just made a number 1 hit of because he is drugged out of his skull.† And youíd see this guy with a suit and tie with an Oxford accent saying oh, arenít we naughty, tee-he-he, as the guy is falling on the floor.† So this is all aimed at the youngsters for goodness sake.† Why were the upper elite pushing this on the rest of the population who didnít belong to their class?† They were talking to a guy from the east end of London who was dressed in some rags and stoned out of his skull who had just fallen off his chair and itís a big laugh, itís a joke, like we are really bad.† We are bad by falling off the chair and being utterly stoned out of our mind.† That was to make it exciting for the youth.† And it worked awfully well, awfully well.† There is so much to all of this you know.

Neil:† Yeah.† I mean that I think is the main, the Bill Grundy interview with the Sex Pistols as it were.† I donít know if Thomas you were in that kind of genre of music.† What would be your perception of that now considering the fact that John Lydon has admitted that he was getting into parties and houses of parliament before he was even in the Sex Pistols?†

Thomas:† Well I have mixed feelings about it.† Itís, I think watching that clip you know back then when I was a kid I thought it was funny.† I mean I just thought the whole thing was funny that this member of the BBC establishment basically destroys his career live on TV.† But another aspect too is that people need to watch that clip again and how that thing all really kicked off was that Siouxsie Sioux who was only about, she must have been only about seventeen at the time, sixteen maybe, from Siouxsie and the Banshees who was there with them.† She said to Bill Grundy I love your show; Iím a big fan.† And then he started making these kind of sexual suggestions to her like Iíll see you back stage afterwards.† And this is like an older guy in his fifties.† She was like a kid.† And how it all began was Steve Jones reacted to that by saying you dirty old bastard, this kind of thing.† And so we were getting an insight into the kind of culture that spawned the likes of Jimmy Saville in that you know basically any teenager that walked in the door, the Top of the Pops, or anything like that was fair game for you know whatever you know pedophile was working there you know theyíd tap into them like Saville or the rest of them.

Now so on that level I thought it was quite revealing and quite interesting.† Then I found out later on about Johnny Lydon and you know the whole thing about, I just donít know what to say, yeah he probably was selected, who knows.† I mean itís just, yeah, you know itís like, I used to, when I was that age I used to think that the old farts were like the Rolling Stones and the Led Zeppelinís and stuff like that.† And I thought you know I was very well aware from an early age of the likes of the Stones and Led Zeppelin were very average and the only thing keeping them going was this mystique built around them.† For instance like the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin just played basic American blues.† They just, itís led belly, itís John Lee Hooker, itís classic American blues sound.† But because they have this mystique surrounding them of being dark or being sinister somehow.† You had the Stones with Kenneth Anger and his whole connection with Crowley and the OTO.† And on the other side you had also you had Led Zeppelin with Jimmy Page and his connection to all that stuff as well.† And so that was the only thing that made them interesting.† Because apart from that theyíre just basic you know white guys copying you know old time American guitar blues.† There was nothing original about it.† There was nothing original about it.

Alan:† There was a very good reason.† Thereís a very good reason for that though because remember you see the U.S. tried to get when they set up all of these camps across the U.S. and so on to train the youth from top universities to become future leaders for the Marxist system and neo-Trotsky system.† It was to be blended with the West basically which has happened.† They, through the acoustic era, they tried, what they were hoping for inside the U.S. was to get the black population to do an uprising.† And so they had to popularize what they called black music.† In fact thatís how they trained initially Bob Dylan, heís from New York remember.† Not from New York, but heís not from the Deep South.

Thomas:† Wisconsin.††

Alan:† Yeah and so for years and years he had to practice and practice this kind of pseudo nasal kind of back in your throat singing that was kind of what is he, is he from Mississippi or where.† And they did the same thing in Britain with the Rolling Stones.† I mean here is a guy again who was trained as an economist, Mick Jagger, and he was put out there with this, again his outfit, his shtick and so on, and his drugged look.† And the imagers immediately put out that heís a star before anyone had heard or even listened to any of his songs.† Massive machinery went into action but he had to sing again.† They used to call him the Deep South Londoner you know because thatís the accent they tried to give him to popularize the black music.† Well when they found out in the 60ís and after some riots they had in parts of New York by the blacks who were against what was happening, they were getting used, as many of the leaders caught on to by the communist party, U.S.A.† Then the party changed its tactics and brought in the rock stuff and then they thought that would do and weíll sing it just like a renegade kind of white man for a change.† And then they started that.† And after that, I was there when they changed the image from the heavier rock bands to the new narcissistic system.† The longhaired, very well groomed long hair, cleaner looking, very tight fashionable but expensive clothing you know and a bit stupid looking.† Even the leotards and all that to change the whole image of the man until he became more effeminate.† And that was really what the push was about.† And so many of the bands that were forming at that time were actually, they actually recruited guys who were homosexual.† That was well known in the industry.† And you met straight guys who couldnít get in, they were excellent musicians and top guitarists and so on and keyboard players but they couldnít get in because that was the image that they wanted to push forward and so on before they came out with all the punk.†

So every stage of this has been well managed.† And then when you find this communist party is totally in cahoots with the powers in the West.† Remember that the Reese Commission that they had in the U.S. in the 1950ís to find out why the big foundations like the Rockefeller Foundation and all the other ones were funding what appeared to them, to the government, to be far left parties, communistic parties.† And Norman Dodds who was sent out there from the congress, the U.S. congress, he published in his own book, he said, I met the chairman of the Ford Foundation, and he said, we take our orders right from the White House he said.† He said and the goal is eventually to change, so drastically and radically change, the culture of the West to that of the Soviet Union.† Theyíll be a merger between the two down the road.† A complete different social system, a different cultural system.† And remember the communist system is total central government and authoritarianism.† Well thatís what we have today, the appearance of a kind of freedom but itís all artificial and given to you because you are copying singers or stars or whatever it happens to be and lots of entertainment to choose from but youíve actually have got a massive centralized government which is becoming more and more authoritarian all the time.† It wasnít just for the U.S.; it was for Canada, Britain and the rest of Europe and so on.

So itís a long-term geopolitical strategy.† And to do so you had to alter the cultures into a now unified culture, which will not stand up.† Because the people cannot bond the same way they used to, they donít have the same values; they donít have even the same...† Well I used to call it ancestor worship.

When you look back at your hometown before they demolished them and built skyscrapers or whatever.† That was where your grandfather walked along this road here or he went down this little stream there and fished, and his great-grandfather before him.† And so you had this continuity.† Today the continuity had to be destroyed.† So a building is up ten years sometimes and then they knock it down again so there is nothing to relate to between one generation to the next.† This was all part of this massive strategy.† You know thousands and thousands of think tanks working on different parts of it and millions of pages written, professional pages, for professionals to learn and how to implement this whole strategy.†

But going back to even Platoís day.† Plato talked about the culture industry.† He called it the industry in the translation from the Greek.† And that included drama, and not just the architecture too but drama, drama was licensed back then.† And the traveling troops were authorized to come out and do certain authorized plays in different city-states across Ancient Greece.† Thatís so many islands, thousands of islands.† And everyone had to by law attend them, even the slaves had to go and watch them because they said thatís where the youth are going to get their morals for a strong morality, a continuity of culture, and a continuity of control.† They also talked about... Plato even said that musicians should be licensed because they have the ability to stir up the youth to rebellion with the emotional impact of music coupling with the right kind of words and so on and themes.†

So this is a very old tradition.† We are taught at school that we just evolve from generation to generation and that things just happen.† Thatís the accidental view of history.† And nothing is further from the truth.† The 20th century into the 21st century were to be where all sciences over people, all sciences, were to come to the fore and rule on behalf of the dominant minority of the wealthy financial families.† So scientific control is what this is all about.† And you must, you must always grab culture completely and you direct it where it is to go.††††

Neil:† Yeah.† Thomas, Alan has said many times that you canít help liking the music and he just mentioned the scientific aspect of that.† And you know there are bands supposedly out there telling us how it is.† You know I mean Muse comes to mind although Iím not a fan of theirs at all.† But I mean there are smaller ones like, Killing Joke, and even smaller, Anti-Flag, for that.† I mean Thomas do you think there are any bands out there at all who are for real?

Thomas:† Not famous ones I donít think.† And if they are they always get corrupted.† And I mean the whole punk rock thing was supposed to be about anarchy and within no time you had like the Clash Sandinista and you know wearing t-shirts with Brigate Rosa on it, you know the Italian Red Brigade, who were basically a communist group that were created by Propaganda Due, the Vatican freemasonry.† You had like the red wedge things.† You had someone like Paul Weller who actually didnít really come out from a political stance in the beginning ends up you know hanging out for a while with people like Neil Kinnock and Billy Bragg I mean hardcore Marxists.† Although to be fair he did pull himself out and said that it was all a con that he was led into.† But this whole thing of stirring up constantly, stirring into Marxism.† It always has to go with Marxism.† Itís always some kind of Marxist end game in all this stuff whether itís pop music or visual arts or even like within alternatives to this thing we have now, you know Russell Brown steering them all back into Marxism again.† Itís always true, you know Iíve always found it interesting that there are 33 revolutions per minute for an LP, and are they telling us something there?†

But itís just, now itís always frustrating to see someone that enters the music business that may have something to say and then itís gone.† Itís whipped off into fluff nonsense or into the Marxist thing.† I mean I actually think that this stuff about live, even bands like U2, yeah they are a big corporate machine now; they are a big established machine.† But Iíve seen interviews, if people go back and look at old interviews of the likes of Bono on early American tours; they were really, really ripping into the establishment to a surprising level.† The next thing you know they are being put on their blues phase, their blues thing and then the next thing you know they are playing for presidents.† Itís almost like what Bill Hicks said about when somebody gets elected that they take them to the President of the United States.† Then they take them into a room behind the oval office and they showed them what really happened in Dealey Plaza that day to JFK.† Itís the same thing with the music business.† You may have integrity, you may have the right feel, the right drive in your soul but there is a certain point where you get to and itís as clear as day, and where you get, what was his name, Bob Dylan again, said it to Ed Bradley on 60 minutes, "I made a deal with the devil, the biggest, baddest guys of them all."† And thatís what happened.† Youíre given, like in the mafia, like any kind of criminal cartel; you are given an offer you canít refuse.†

Neil:† Yeah.† Iíve actually got...

Alan:† And along with these offers too, along with these offers comes...† Hello?

Neil:† Carry on.† Carry on Alan.† Carry on.

Alan:† Yeah I was going to say that along with the offers I mean it isnít just financial or doors opening for you, or things being taken care of for you like lawsuits would come your way that would get deflected away all together.† Things like that.† You also get superior healthcare thatís not available to anybody in the general public.† You can get up to the higher levels of things like that, life extension to an extent you might call it.† Thatís why they live so long.† But so there are many different things that theyíre given or it comes their way.†

But when you go into who they put out to get this whole thing really kicked off in the 60ís, this new more organized systematic technique they were using, well planned, and with the Pentagon involved and so on.† If you go into, even Morrison, they always made a big deal about Morrison and the Doors and so on.† When the ships in the Gulf of Tonkin in the U.S., warships, were supposedly, had possibly had torpedoes fired at them.† This is the con that got the war started you see, they wanted a war.† The navy admiral in charge was Admiral George Steven Morrison.† That was his father.††

Youíll find if you go through the top guys they put out to really kick this off, every one of their fatherís was deep into, high up in the Pentagon.† Frank Zappaís dad himself was up in the top military establishment for chemical and biological warfare.† They were all, even Madonna, you know that came out and said oh I turned up in New York alone or something with a pair of ballet shoes and five bucks.† Thatís lots of rubbish because her brother came out and said no, her dad is from a long military family.† Thatís where we all came from, high up in the Pentagon.††

So this is a standard thing.† So many of them are actually picked and groomed very early for their acting role as leaders of the culture industry.† Because you put out the leaders there, you debase the morality even more, and all these young fans, especially women start copying Madonna and then they bring out later on Gaga and the rest of them and so on, and just push the envelope step by step.† This was all planned before they even picked Madonna that you get right down to Gaga.† Iím sure even the names were picked before they even picked out Gaga.† This is how detailed and well-organized all of this system is.††† ††

Thomas:† Yeah.† It always amazed me too how it, like you said, that they are picked from the right families.† In the case of Jim Morrison there is a photograph of him as a clean cut youth on the bridge of his fatherís battleship literally months before he ends up as this longhaired rebel.† Itís a very, very strange transition in such a short time.† He goes from like straight-laced army brat to rock god, Dionysian sex god, overnight.† That has always been a very weird one for me.† And another thing too I was just going to say, if you donít come from those families they have a tendency to kill you off.††

Alan:† Absolutely.

Thomas:† Itís like they donít want genuine people with talent working, like with talent and ability, who are popular.† They seem to have a very high mortality rate.

Alan:† Thatís right, yeah.† And Zappa himself too was groomed and given lots of TV spots again in a suit and tie when he was about thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, every year he was given little TV spots on silly little shows just to get him used to the audience and managing himself in front of people and so on.† But suit and tie, short haircut, and the whole thing.† So this is standard stuff, yeah.

Thomas:† David Bowie as well.† He was a regular on American shows like the Dinah Shore Show and so was Alice Cooper and they were supposed to be counter culturists.† And here they were entrenched with Bing Crosby and the very heart of the American tender time of establishment.†

Alan:† Uh huh, yep, thatís right.† And even to start Bowie off.† Bowie started off with a traveling road show.† This thing had about six or seven tractor-trailers, these massive American type trailers, doing his tours with all the incredible... no one had that back then.† The cost of it alone and the transportation of it all and the hundreds of technicians all involved thatís how they launched him.† And he comes on the stage dressed in a little pouch, for his you know what, and nothing else on.† Dressed up with paint all over this face and heís down on his knees on stage and everybody was shocked saying what the hell is this?† And who really launched him?† The BBC did it again.† They did massive shows on his road show all along to make sure it was launched.† And to make, to launch this new, hereís a new kind of male, heís not quite this and not quite that.† What is he?†

And going back even further to set it up again step-by-step.† They started it off with Elvis Presley.† And Elvis Presley was taught how to..., they called him Elvis the Pelvis.† To get the pelvis going, a really disgusting thing in that era at that time.† Itís nothing today because we are so debased.† And he was trained by the same guy, the same guy who controlled the whole group, Johnny Cash, all of them.† He made them all stars this one man.† And the same thing happened in Britain at the time you had Cliff Richard under the one guy.† There was a guy called Brown as well, he had a few songs, and different ones.† They had the same technique with a small clique in every country.† All in communication with each other who knew the techniques were given a complete authority of the establishment and the governments to launch these people into the new culture.†††

Neil:† We had Tom Jones of course in Britain who was kind of the counter to Elvis Presley for British folk I guess.†

Alan:† Yeah and they launched him as a descendent of a miner which was nonsense.† {Laughs}

Thomas:† When Elvis Presley appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show the publicity machine made an enormous deal out of the fact that the camera couldnít show below his midriff.† They only showed the top.† Now that was to deliberately generate this, as you were talking about earlier on, this idea of the forbidden fruit.† The young people want to see the bottom half of Elvis.† And itís all..., so they deliberately create the forbidden fruit in order to attract people towards it.† Their very deed was what worked on psychopaths. †

Alan:† Absolutely.† Always make it bad.† You must make it naughty and bad you see.† Yeah.†

Neil:† Thatís the Sex Pistols in a nutshell, isnít it?† Ban them.† Ban them from the public venue and then everybody wants to see them.†

Alan:† Yeah.

Thomas:† Another one for me is the disassociation kind of thing they use.† Very much in the idea of like Orwellian newspeak in these cultural memes.† You have all of these Vietnam War movies that show, that were made after the war, and they always show the American troops walking in slow motion through the jungle to ironically itís always an anti-war protest song.† A rock song.† You know this kind of thing played by some band like Creedence Clearwater Revival.†††

Alan:† Yeah, thatís right.

Thomas:† Or a Marvin Gay song.† So you have this association of the anti-war kind of rock anthem being used as a promotional film to glamorize war when you have Charlie Sheen and people like that walking in slow motion through the jungle while you know they are playing something by Jefferson Airplane.† You have the dichotomy of the two together that causes a kind of psychic association in people, where people who are into that music now believe that itís somehow cool because you are in the army marching to a song thatís against war. †Itís total Frankfurt School stuff.

Alan:† Theyíve actually put out documentaries, yeah they put documentaries out now and I think they even use them in recruitments but itís from actual footage of guys inside the armored military vehicles that are really racing across the dessert and itís got this heavy metal music in the background wah-wah-wah-wah-wah.† And they are all tough and you know and this is... Yeah you create what you want.† Itís so easy if you have the power and influence in society to create the kind of special areas like troops or whatever that you actually want.† And you also have a culture within the country that will emulate that too.† You see that with the rap music.† You had years of the promotion by the way.† Blacks didnít promote this stuff from the top.† If the culture industry did not want that stuff to get pushed out there you never would have heard of it.† But they pushed it from the very, very top.† The whole culture industry did at the very top and then you end up with, "kill cops","kill cops", all this stuff and then you start getting this happening and you see where it is today.† This is all to get the dissention, the tension built up inside the U.S. therefore they want a time when there will be definite riots combined with economic problems too, etcetera, to bring in again the next part of the new society.† There is no doubt about that at all in my mind.

Thomas:† One day when they stood up the African American family in the United States, they brought out songs like "Papa was a Rolling Stone"to entrench the idea that daddy will never be home.† And so they grew up with this culture of listening to this song, "Papa was a rolling stone", you know that kind of thing, "...where he laid his hat was his home".† And so you grow up believing that like if you are an African American in Detroit or New York or New Jersey or whatever, you actually grow up believing well daddyís not home because Iím aware of a song called, "Papa was a Rolling Stone".† And then they try to make it; oh itís a statement of the times.† No itís not, it is predictive programming.

Alan:† Yes it is.† Yep, thatís cool and why get a job and try to get some self-respect, never mind other peopleís respect, get self-respect in a way thatís not going to harm you or other people and actually benefit you and give you a bit of peace as well.† Rather than get self-respect inside a kind of gang just because you are the coolest dude and baddest dude there is.† But thatís whatís been promoted for years now and that was all deliberately.† Because it wasnít white men that promoted the rap believe you me.† Itís not blacks that control the culture industry.† But it was the white men that pushed all this, and I say white, and there are more things involved in that too that tend to lead the culture industry as well within it.†

Thomas:† Yeah there are {inaudible}.

Neil:† In terms of like black music in general I mean if you go back to the old image of the black congregations in the churches I mean was that like a purely good thing?† Was that a genuine kind of thing that went on and that had to be co-opted because it was actually the foundation of whole communities?

Alan:† You are dead on.†

Neil:† I mean we have gone from there to gangster rap.† I mean gangster rap has got to be the most promiscuous and disgusting thing.

Alan:† You are dead on.† Hereís what they came out with, they came out with this in the 60ís again from the communist party in the U.S.A., and in their own writings if you go back you will find all this stuff.† And they talked about, they couldnít get the blacks to revolt because of this, how they held on strongly to this what was to them traditional Christianity and gospel music and so on.† That was what was holding them back.† They couldnít get them to completely revolt so they simply tried to eliminate all of that and get the young women.† You see itís mainly their moms and so on who always kept that tradition of Christianity and hereís how it should be, right and wrong, and so on.† And so they had to get the young women to be ultra, ultra promiscuous as well.†† Thatís why you had the MTV and all that promoting, the dancers that were pretty well humping each other on stage you know in front of the camera.† Thatís really what it was all simulating.† Then get the young women into it too, bring in an atheistic culture, and then you control them completely.† Thatís been awfully successful.†

Thomas:† Well what they called those gospels, they used to call them Negro spirituals.† That was basically the whole song, body of songs by the likes of Pete Seeger and Peter, Paul and Mary.† All they did was take those old southern church songs and put them on a real namby-pamby acoustic guitar version and suddenly in one fell swoop the whole tradition of indigenous and natural and organic Black American gospel music, bang itís gone

Alan:† Thatís right.† Thatís right.

Neil:† Can we say the same thing about the traditional black blues musicians who were actually singing about kind of their own lives as such?

Thomas:† Oh yeah it was that piss take that they made of the Beatles, the Rutles, that Eric Idol made, that "All You Need is Cash".† There is a very funny but very telling scene in it.† It goes, here I am in Louisiana, the home of the blues, music written by black people played almost exclusively by whites.And that was really you know it was a satirical funny way of looking at it.† Absolutely all these things like Irish and Scottish and English folk music, the spirituals in America or the blues, they were all rooted in real organic musical traditions that bonded communities together that spoke of peopleís pain.† That spoke of peopleís... their desires in life to transcend the situation they were in.† And every single last one of them, you know you look at like Irish folk music itís ended up with Michael Flatley on a stage with about a hundred you know girls in short skirts dancing around him.† You have the spiritual stuff is all, rappers now have that.† Well they are rapping about what they are going to do with the hoe and stuff like that.† You have like these spirituals singing gospel in the background.†

And the folk music well that was destroyed years ago.† I mean even bands like the Pogues, I mean I never got the appeal of them.† They just took Irish folk music and just basically played it directly as it is and added this sort of drunken element to it.† To always keep this idea of the Irish man as being this hapless drunk.† You know this stupid drunk.† And if you look at them they were all people like Shane MacGowan.† You know the leader of the Pogues was an English public schoolboy.† And here he was playing the professional drunken paddy on stage.

Alan:† Yeah you have to remember too that even during the 70ís they were bringing guys in from wealthy families, very wealthy families, Oxford and Cambridge and so on who decided because their dads were so powerful and rich and well connected, they wanted to be rock stars.† And they were teaching them how to speak in cockney, with a cockney accent, the London accent, to try to get the image.† And in that they were successful with quite a few of them actually who went national with the money behind them and acting lessons and so on.† Plus if you mime pretty good and get other people to sing for you and even play for you and thatís happened by the way too.† Iíve played in stuff where none of the guys in the band actually played at all but they went through all the video disks and appeared here and there and played to tape.†

But everything is, what you see on television is a show.† Itís show business. †It is show business, itís not real.† Even exposťs on something is not real either, including how bad the band is or how drunk they got last night, or dived out of the second floor into the swimming pool.† That is all staged stuff.† They use stunt men, things like that and written in advance.† I mean you wouldnít believe how itís all show business.† All of it, yeah.†

Thomas:† The cockney accent thing is interesting because Iíve seen videos of Jimmy Page from Led Zeppelin and Mick Jagger from the Stones when they were about in secondary school and they sounded like Prince William.† A few years later, "oh we were down in the east end and we were giving it up large", this is kind of like a mock-me thing going on.

Alan:† Thatís right.

Thomas:† And again there are so many examples that even the classical violinist Nigel Kennedy, who they made kind of a pop star out of back in the 80ís and 90ís.† Iíve seen he does the same thing, "Iím Nigel Kennedy.† I played a violin.", you know this kind of thing.† There are also interviews of him when he was a kid and again he sounds like Prince Harry or Prince William.

Alan:† Yeah.† Thatís right.† And Iíve met the Stones because they were in the same recording studio as I was at one point up in Scotland actually.† David Balfe ran it and he had hits himself.† I mean he came from a long lineage of cultural experts believe you me in this industry.† And he had about three or four different names.† And thatís the first thing you learn is to use different names.† But they were going in at the time and I had a chat with him and you are certainly right on how they actually speak in reality.† And itís the same with most other ones as well.† And Iíve met Jimmy Page too in his house when he got it up in Scotland.† He had a big party there for different people and we all went and that was Aleister Crowleyís old house in fact.

Thomas:† Boleskine Manor, yeah.†

Neil:† I remember you mentioning Alan that you were invited to, was it a womenís event like a womenís lib event or something?† And they approached you to do certain songs in certain ways or something.

Alan:† No, it was actually just...† I thought it was just a club in Toronto and I just popped in, I didnít know what it was, I thought Iíd go and get a beer actually.† And there were some guys singing up on the stage and so on.† It was a small club, maybe a couple of hundred people, and I thought it was just a local thing.† And someone said to me can you play?† I said a little bit, I always say a little bit.† And they said can you give us a song?† So I went up there and sung some songs and so on and this women approached me and said can you sing something radical?† I said what do you mean radical?† What kind of radical song?† And what would you say is radical?† How do you define it?† And it was all anti-establishment stuff.† And the place was called, The Trojan Horse.† Now they had different Trojan Horses, interesting name too, all set up by the Canadian government and funded by the Canadian government for counterculture.† And the people who were set up to help run it had to try and pick people to turn up at different rallies and things and do really radical anti-establishment songs paid by your government for goodness sake.† And I was rather astonished at that.† And when I was there I turned up a second night about a week later and there was a woman from the federal government who worked for the federal government, came in, they all knew her, she was lesbian by the way because she hugged every female there in a strange way and one of them told me that she was.† And I thought what the hell is this?† And the Canadian taxpayer was funding all of this.† And all across Canada these kinds of clubs.† Britain had the same in some areas too by the way.†

I had to find out when I was really young why every government since World War II, the Soviets, France, Britain, Germany, all of the countries, the U.S., Canada, Australia, why we all had a Department of Culture.† If you the people are the culture why would you need a Department of Culture?† Well this was for culture guidance and creation.† And they give out the grants to novelists, to film producers, film writers and musicians, songwriters.† They put out the grants for guys often who couldnít get a job anywhere else because theyíve got a chip on their shoulder or something.† But they will put them out there as long as they put these things in their novel, these topics to upgrade, update, just like a computer program the new morality of the public and put it in even cartoons.†

Youíve got your U.S. state ones and Canadian providence provincial ones; they give the grants out too.† They call them to artist grants, and so do the federal governments as well.† They all do this so all of culture is actually guided, if itís to be successful that is, because you can only be allowed to be successful.

Neil:† Yeah I know thereís a club in London that does all this kind of thing.

Thomas:† Yeah itís all been taken care of.

Neil:† There is a club in London; I was going to come back to you Thomas on this one.† I know thereís a club in London that runs these kinds of events that have musicians or comedians or whatever, and it is run by the likes of Charlie Skelton and these kind of people who are supposedly at Bilderberg protesting you know all run to the Guardian Newspaper.† But are there any such venues in Dublin or Ireland in general Thomas?

Thomas:† Well itís the same as anywhere else.† There is even a Rock-n-Roll high school here where kids are, the government gets, itís like a Julliard kind of thing that they you know they put them into and they teach them what they expect of them in the music business.† And like nobody, nobody comes out of it famous or interesting.† Itís the same idea again.† They are programmed to be Rock-n-Rollers as long as they are doing what the teachers, who are all like professors and very few of them have musical backgrounds, are telling them to do.† It goes on everywhere.† Iím aware of nothing in the music industry; it is dead now really compared to what it used to be when I was a kid.† It was much more organic and natural here years ago but nowadays itís just as horrible and commercial as everywhere else.† And again itís the same thing.† One constant Iíve mentioned in the beginning there about a constant that Iíve encountered in this is that itís always well to do people from old families, old money families, aristocrats.† And it always seems to come back to protecting them through this weird kind of dissociative idea of bringing in Marxism and so on.† And yeah, itís been like that.† The people who run the music business here they are all rich.† They are all people with money.† Iíve seen it all my life and that will never change.† I mean even the people again; youíve got a much better chance of making it in the music business if your parents are billionaires.† Like Carly Simon, she came from the Simon & Schuster Publishing Family.† And there is so much of this that goes on.† Just like Jim Morrison because these people come from the families and itís already known whatís expected of them when they get into power so they donít have to be trained.† I often found it very interesting how even in the 60ís in England when you had all these bands forced to make it and everyone from these small places, like the Kinks, how they all bought stately homes of the aristocrats in the countryside.† Basically what they were doing was plowing that money back into the aristocrats so if they were someone from the working class, from the east end of London, say someone like Steve Marriott from the Small Faces.† It was almost like they were expected to purchase with their millions a home, a stately home, a mansion in the countryside, from some lord or lady so immediately you have a transference of cash from the elite into a working class person but then they were expected to transfer that money back into the elite again.† It always goes back to this kind of like aristocratic culture, sub-culture, pulling all the strings.

Neil:† Alan?

Alan:† Yeah, thatís pretty well how it is.† Youíll find though that in the early 1900ís, thatís when the big push was on from within the U.S. to destroy all culture.† It was quite open in New York.† In fact you can go in and get hundreds of books published by the U.S. communist party based in New York City.† They published all the books, they republished all the Lenin books and so on, Stalin and various others, right to the very end and got away with it too.† No one came down on them and said you canít do this or itís going a bit too far.† Supposedly advocating revolution to destroy your entire culture and way of life.† Thatís what it was about.† To destroy your culture and way of life.† All culture and everything to do with culture had to be destroyed and then remade in a new image.

And so they came out with the Nuevo Art at the time, the early art which was like the Picasso stuff, you know the schizophrenic faces that were torn in half and things, an eyeball at the top and one on the chin.† And they called this art.† And hereís a technique that they used, they already had the clique at the top of cultural leaders who owned the art industry, and once again some guy who is called an expert says oh this is a fantastic creative work of art, worth millions, you see.† And itís a piece of rubbish; the king has no clothes idea.† But because itís someone so wealthy and talks in his very posh accent and all that then he must be quite right.† So you look at this thing upside down, you stand on your head and you try to look at it too, and you say well I guess so.† "Well youíre just not seeing what heís trying to portray there.Ē and nonsense like that.† Well the Guggenheim family started to buy all this stuff up to make it popular.† A big, big part of the U.S. culture.† And today they still fund it all too buying this rubbish and promoting this as the greatest art ever made.† Everything that was dissociative, disjointed of culture, morality, even sanity itself was pushed out there as the best that we have.†

All of the old paintings that gave you a nostalgic emotional feeling, or something of beauty had to be destroyed and that went along with movies now too, you see how debase they all are.† You wouldnít want to live in some of these movies, the places they show you, because they are so debase and they curse and swear and itís just the F-word every second sentence, and but thatís what they have been pushing, pushing.† And then the music thing too, they take you right down to rap.† And at the very end when you take it all down you wrap it up and thatís why they called it rap.†

Neil:† Thomas?† Weíve already actually gone 20 minutes over what we were supposed to do so I donít know if you guys want to carry on a bit more.† I suppose the obvious question is, whatís coming next?† I mean where do you see the music going now, Thomas?

Thomas:† Well I think the music industry is basically dead in terms of actual, anyone from the bottom trying to make a living from it, because the record companies donít put money into bands anymore.† You know they deliberately create a free download thing in order to sort of take the economic power out of up and coming bands giving them an impetus to try and make it.† And the only money thatís in the music industry now is in the acts that are picked.† Itís true in the shows like American Idol and all the other rubbish and they are put out there.† They are the only ones given the promotional budgets.† The days of the singer who actually, or the band who kind of from the bottom got a record deal or whatever, as bad as that system was there was still a chance to actually progress somehow.† That stuff doesnít exist anymore, that whole economic aspect has been taken out.† The future as far as I can see is that the music has become appalling.† Itís unlistenable now and I know itís not my age because Iíve always been listening to all kinds of experimental music all my life and Iím not like close minded or locked into the one kind of sound.† Iím very open-minded musically.† The music that you hear on the radio these days is just bizarre.† Itís just repetitive sounds and tones repeated over and over again.† There is often no melody or harmony.† There is no hook.† It purely, it sounds schizophrenic in fact itís almost like designed to create, to make people schizophrenic.†

So in terms of the music industry, itís gone.† Itís always been a disaster but itís finished now.† There will always be people who will want to create from their heart or from their soul, weíll never hear from them, theyíll always do it.† Hopefully that alone may continue with instruments and so on but in terms of actually a great future for some kind of big music scene or the day when true talent is allowed to shine thatís never going to happen because itís more controlled than ever.† They didnít have to license music as Plato wanted, all they had to do was take complete and total control over what the musical output was and filter everything.† And theyíve been doing that for so long now that I canít see...† Whatís next, whatís next is more drivel, more trash.† And hopefully as a counter-insurgency to that more young people will say itís clearly garbage, itís clearly controlled, my friends and I are going to make our own music, sing our own songs and follow our own path.† So there is good and bad but in terms of the music industry I think imagine the worst.† You know they are always going to push for the worst.† We are on, you know as this civilization continues to deteriorate we will go the way of Rome.† When Rome first began the coliseum used to host basically boxing matches and poetry recitals and plays.† Towards the end they were having you know people with Downs Syndrome being torn apart by wild animals.† Well I can guarantee you thatís eventually where the musical industry will take it.† That will be the end game.† They will, itís been done before, it will go increasingly shocking and increasingly shocking to what we will look back to the days of hardcore gangster rap and we will think itís innocent and wholesome compared to whatís coming down the line.†††

Neil:† Alan?

Alan:† And itís also the end product of a war.† Itís a war, itís an agenda.† And the war was on all of society not just in one country but across an awful lot of societies.† When they brought out again the Picasso type nonsense it was, the movement was to make apathy, nihilism, the yuck feeling of nothingness left in you when you looked at this rubbish.† There is nothing of beauty to look at, etcetera.† So the beauty that makes you human and all the emotions that go with it that also add to the culture, that gave you your culture in the past, has been pretty well annihilated until you had this lost sound and young lost voices almost whaling again narcissistically.† Itís not for us or we or we all share this or whatever in common, it is to do with bringing in a narcissistic I am me, exactly what Bertrand Russell and others talked about, they would bring in.† They have done it awfully successfully.† You are not really connected with other people right down with again, with the internet war, the texting.† They would rather text each other at the table rather than talk to each other.† Itís all worked superbly well you know.† And whatever they want in culture is promoted from the top as being youíve got to do this if you want to be in the in crowd.† If you donít do this you are not in the in crowd.† So if you sit and still talk across the table at a restaurant or whatever you are square, you are odd, youíre a weirdo.† If you text each other then youíre in the in crowd.† Itís been awfully successful unfortunately this whole war.† And unfortunately when you have lost so much and folk cannot relate to anything that made you strong in the past, that gave every generation a vision of hope and prosperity or whatever it happened to be, then you are in a state of apathy like the Sci-Fi movies they started churning out about the future back in the 70ís, 80ís, and 90ís.† You are living amongst the rubble of a depressed economy, everythingís gone, you are living in rubble.† You have this private global army thatís bashing you in the head all the time or killing you because they are the winners. †You know they can always hire the hoods to be in the military in such a system.† Thatís what they have been projecting for years and really thatís what they want I think.†

When you look at the big think tank for NATO that did the report, and I put it up on my website at cuttingthroughthematrix.com in the archives section.† It is 90 pages; they came out with it for the NATO countries and the British Military.† This is the big think tank that projects the future, whatís coming down.† They are going to turn the world eventually into city-states, no more countries.† And these will be privately owned city states by a very rich elite run by, on behalf of the elite, you have the scientific, the expert run community society.† And in the meantime youíll have what Huxley talked about in "Brave New World".† Youíll have the kind of barbarians living outside the gates living in the rubble of what used to be rural areas and all the rest of it but they will die off over the years until they are all gone.† Thatís what they also portrayed in so many movies that also coincided with a kind of debased, degenerative, nihilistic music they have been throwing out there for years.†

It all comes together at this time and they want the new financial system to be brought in eventually through another big crash, which is all organized of course by one group of banks that run the world.† The World Bank set up by the private organization, the Royal Institute of International Affairs.† They set up the IMF, they own that too.† They own the worldís money supply basically and the lending supply.†

So they are going to bring in a new system, very degenerate because the future is for a much smaller population of those they deem fit to go through it, not all those who presently exist and have the right by being born here to have the same rights as everybody else.† They donít believe in that at all.† They are very eugenically oriented.† And if you look at the real Trotskyist, Marxist type, they keep calling themselves now, itís the same eugenics elitist movement as the wealthy financial elite already had.† Itís one and the same thing.† There are no sides in this.† There is only one monopoly for the world monopoly.†

Neil:† Yeah.† Well I mean I have heard quite a few lyrics over the past, well the past decade I suppose, talking about too many people and you know all this kind of stuff.† I think of it like a new model army, they talk about this stuff, people starving because there are too many of them and all this garbage you know.† And Thomas, the final word to yourself.

Thomas:† I kind of really think I donít have much more to say.† I think we covered it comprehensively.† Iím just glad that, you know for me the biggest dilemma is Iím a music fan and I love music.† But I also, I never, I donít buy into the pop star, rock star thing.† If I hear a piece of music and I like it, I will like it.† If I hear a band that I donít really care about I do not, I have always never...† Iíve been fortunate that I have never been really influenced by the lyrics.† To me it was just a nice guitar sound or a nice drum sound.† That was enough for me.†† So I think for those of us, we should you know enjoy music if it makes you feel good.† Enjoy it if you like the sound but always remember that you donít have to buy into the whole package.† You can just take what you hear, what you like, and discard the rest because the rest is probably...† What the good music is, is a lure and a bait to get you into the control system.† And thatís what they are after.† Donít take the lure, donít take the bait, just enjoy it for what it is and detach.† And that to me is what I would say is the best way to deal with that.†††

Neil:† I know you are still playing Thomas.† And Alan, I heard you say at Christmas that you havenít picked up a guitar for a year, so I hope you do this year sometime and weíll get a tune out of you at Christmas.†

Alan:† Yeah.†

Thomas:† Yes.

Neil:† Okay.†

Alan:† Okay.

Neil:† Okay folks.† Thanks so much guys and hopefully weíll do this again sometime on a completely different topic.† Weíll leave it at that.


{Closing Music ♫}