PART 2 of June 24, 2007






Henrik:  …I did receive a mail from a lady. I can't remember her name now, who asked me if I could ask you a little bit about the “spiritual” topics in that sense.  A lot of stuff that we do talk about here, of course, is in a way very much about the physical control of the controls, but also about the psychological controls. It obviously goes beyond the physical.  I know that this particular lady was a little bit -- maybe not -- I guess she felt a little bit, not hopeless, but maybe that she saw it that it was a side to all of this that we are talking about, many of the problems that we see and discuss here, that there is another side to it.  I don't know if you want to address this at all, or if you want to talk about it. If we were to talk about the response to your website, do you get a positive response and that people are behind you, or do you think that they're resistant to the information, or how is the consensus in all?


Alan:  I think the ones who understand where I've been going with all of this have also come through different stages by themselves, to realize that even the whole spiritual side of things, not just in this age but in all ages, has been given to the public and controlled. Updated, you might say, just like a program, a computer that certain realities that everyone knows in all ages, all peoples and that is that we sometimes know there's something else beyond us. We all get to that step. That's what priesthoods in all ages have also known, that we have a yearning for something beyond all of this. That once in a while you feel maybe a little closer to a transient experience, generally when you're on your own or it's quiet or it's nighttime or something, but it's something that transcends all the worry and the induced worry, the controlled worry that we have on this planet.


However, the priesthoods in all ages have used all kinds of tricks through charlatans and dominated this need that humanity has to control the people rather than free the people. Anything which tells you that it's written in the stars or it's Revelations or its God's will. That's the trick of predictive programming. It makes you feel helpless. “There's nothing you can do about it. It's the way it's going to be,” and psychological warfare experts in all ages understand this technique. They even rehashed Nostradamus' prophecies of World War II for the Nazis. They dropped leaflets all over Poland with slants on it predicting that, and because Nostradamus said it is so, it's going to be. You've had it. You're going to be overrun to try and make the people give up psychologically.


A few people in all ages can go past all of that and see through it and have their own natural experiences. I call it "natural experiences" because anything that happens has to be natural, even what's called "supernatural" by others. The problem today is we live in a scientific age where science has been able for a long time to mimic what people think of as spiritual experiences. For instance, here's a good example.


The New Age Movement was funded from its inception in the West by mainly MI6, the big foundations that work in conjunction with MI6 and the CIA.  They promoted the whole New Age Movement and the whole blending of what was seemed to be Indian mysticism with Christianity.


Even in the 1800’s, Blavatsky and others were sent out to start the ball rolling in that direction.  She said herself that the object was eventually to blend science with the spirit, this crossing of science and spirit. Nick Begich and other people have demonstrated the obsolete technology. The portable handheld remote type devices that can insert a thought in a person's brain by line of sight and you could be walking along the country side and suddenly you'd have this eureka moment or have a vision or hear a voice or hear God talking to you and you'd believe it was God because after all what else could it be? 


What we've found out through declassified information, the funding of the big movements towards the New Age Movement with all the meditation schools in the West, many of them had this technology embedded in the walls, so people were having their 'om' mediation. They paid their money like good citizens in a capitalist system and they expect results; and by golly, God talks to you.


They've been using what would seem to the general public to be magical techniques which are only scientific techniques to try and simulate something which they know themselves is occasionally real for a few people down through the ages. Now the other big problem is when you go into these areas you'll find the bulk of the populous, who haven't studied much in their lives, and in fact haven't known reality in their own lives take things for granted. What they do accept is fear. They’ll feel fear of uncertainty of the economy or whatever the next fear is that's spouted by the media. They feel all that and so fear tends to push them into looking for an escape route.


Once again, in come the religionists or the New Age Movement to say, "hey, nothing's real anyway, just sit back and enjoy the ride", an old trick that was learned in India. That was used in India for thousands of years to control the people. You could sit and watch your wife being slaughtered and your family being slaughtered and if you've been trained that nothing is real, you'd sit there and smile at what was happening. Then they get around to killing you.


Henrik:  Yeah. That's part of the Caste System, I guess, in itself?


Alan:  Yeah, that too. They're literally taught that nothing was really real.


Henrik:  What you're saying here is that this is to help pacify people from actually going out and doing something about what's rotten in the world?


Alan:  Yeah. They don't even participate in changing what's happening, or what they know is happening or they find out what is happening. Rather than try and participate and make it better, or even deviate from the course that is planned, they'd rather go into complete escapism and not look at the express train that's coming up the tracks behind them. That's again a psychological warfare. Those people have already been mentally disarmed because they're not participating in this life.


In ancient times, they would talk about the completed person. This used to be known even in early Christianity because it predated Christianity. The completed person was the first trinity. That was body, soul and spirit—trinity.  Over the years, soul somehow got blended with spirit until they became the same.  Then they missed the mark because the whole idea of being here in the world (in ancient times) was for your soul which did the seeking. That was the motivating factor, to find its own other part. That was the real "soul mate," that was spirit. It was that which was really part of you but disconnected. The old, old journey was to seek it; and if it came towards you and joined, you were completed. That's where the term genii or genius came from (in the Greek), so you had a responsibility on Earth that wasn't just to live, marry and have children or accumulate wealth or whatever. It was also to complete a journey.


The soul in itself, it was said, or what was believed at least amongst the people, that the soul itself had very little or no real personality; and if the person failed to complete the mission, then when they died, the soul just went back into the big soup mix and it didn't gain anything. Nothing was retained. The whole idea of the ancient forms of perfection meant that the actual soul would do its journey through the person, through the body and mate with the spirit itself, which was pure understanding, and be complete. Once you were complete, after death you would have knowledge. You would continue. If you didn't, the soul went back. There was no repetition. There was no “you” anymore. That's what it used to mean.  They had all these ancient debates in Babylon and different places about all of this. It's written if you understand the journeys of the KA and the BA, in Egypt, what they really all mean.  There's always an esoteric side to things and an exoteric side for the bulk of the populous, who would rather have ritual and people of same minds going through the same rituals with the same dogmas. That makes people feel comfortable. It was always the specific individual who went beyond that and understood the esoteric.


It's interesting that science today has tried to emulate all of those things which we called, beforehand, supernatural; and a lot of it has been accomplished already. If an experience happens in your mind and you see a vision or you hear a voice that's intelligible and makes sense to you, you could never be sure anymore if it's been induced through science, because they understand the language of the coding and the frequencies of both the visual cortex and the auditory.  They can create both; and that's declassified stuff. Now we're in trouble.


Henrik:  Now we're in trouble. In a way, obviously, it does matter, so that's not my question there; but our experience here, I would attribute it to a spiritual journey, our life on this planet at this moment.  In a way, at the moment, at least my overarching philosophies that in a way I say that everything that actually happens on our planet on this level—it's the perfect thing, in a way. It is exactly what we deserve and it's also exactly what we need to experience right now to actually move on or move beyond.  Just as you say, science is catching up with all of this. We definitely need to find something even more real or something further beyond or even more in contact with true spirituality. Would you agree on that?


Alan:  Yeah. Even if you had true spirituality, even that has been so vastly overdone with the New Age Movement that they expect a perfection, physical and every other way, a person who claims they have it; which is nothing to do with the reality of originally men at all. That's why they put their funny robes on, put their noses in the air and put on smiles as if they know something. They really know nothing. This war has really been going on, as I say, since the beginning of time.  Time is a funny thing altogether. Time is only matter moving in space.


Henrik:  Yeah. It's even biological decay in a sense, you can say, or old decay.


Alan:  Like everything in the language, there is double meaning, because time is to emit.  Time, in a sense, we always think of as something that is short or gone or some abstract to come; and yet it's also to give out. It's something which gives out. It's a two-way street, in a sense. The battle, in ancient times was always said that, for the individual was to be done on planet earth. Planet earth is the meaning behind so much in the old occultic societies, the ancient ones. You'll find that in the root of all the words that are used for the holy people, in all religions, because everything is coming from the mother which is The Matrix. The original Matrix, you see, where all things come out of; and mother is also matter.


Henrik: Matter. That's right.


Alan:  World of matter—and so you have mother, mater, matter and you also have -- she's also given the title of the sea -- water. Everyone is born in water; the first baptism. That's what that means as well. So mare is the sea, which is Mary.  We're born into this place here and we have this ability because we have something supposedly called spirit. Although you must wonder how many have it?; because in the old Aramaic and eventually the Hebrew legends, a time would come when there would be no more souls born; and when the first soul-less people were born, then the end would come.


Henrik:  Of the experiment or of the experience machine?


Alan:  That's right, or the first purely human designed human being that's born artificially. It's strange how it all ties together. The goal is again always a paradox, a mirror image of a reality. One is real. One is not real. One is a spiritual path. One is an emulation of the same thing. The goal is to free the individual into something much more than he or she is; and the goal of the elite is not to free them, but to give world peace through a type of freedom from worry, which is non-thinking, non-being in a sense.


Henrik:  So in that sense we could say that the elite in this case is kind of a representative of the force that we as individuals or human beings here have to transcend in order to -- I don't know if you want to say “reach the next level” because that's another way of looking at it. But if we are to develop as individuals or as spiritual beings, I believe that we always are going to find ourselves in a situation where we are “put to the test,” so to speak, and for this particular era or time that we are in now, we have this incredibly controlling elite force all around us, the machine or the beast or even the control grid that is going in. Would you say that this or these guys are the representatives of that dark force that we have to transcend as human beings?


Alan:  There's no doubt. They make it quite plain that their religion is one of a complete utter belief in genetic superiority of certain peoples, and intellectual superiority and material superiority because they have accumulated the wealth of the ages in families. Darwinism is an interesting part of their religion, because Darwinism is based on an old Masonic belief system that goes back to Hinduism that everything came out of primordial slime. It's pretty well Hinduism. That through the Great Leap Forward, the same kind of thing that Arthur C. Clarke, the other High Mason showed in "2001," the movie done in the 1960’s. At the beginning of the movie they show you their religion. They show you their complete and utter belief in evolution, with the one who is with the monkey tribe who gets the bone and kills his opponent across the way; the first murder of one species killing itself, its own. That was a superior type according to them. Those who are going to use utter violence and kill they claim have given us progress. They call it progress.


Sure enough, all down through the ages, these peoples through wars, down to the age of knights and so called chivalry, have slaughtered and enslaved peoples and made them all slaves working for them, up to the present time. This is their belief system; superiority through their right and ability of might to control the weak.  That's their religion. They are, in a sense, what in the West they would call "the anti-Christ." 


Henrik:  This is also a part of the end-game battle. Whoever has attained the most when times runs out wins or whatever. It's like a game.


Alan:  Yeah. Not only that, the way they have strategized this so covertly, so cleverly down through the ages, they think they haven't left anything to chance. They've covered every possible base. They've kept the whole world in the dark through one guise or another, while they have the arrogance to publish books on what they are going to do, from the top people, with the rest of us.


Henrik:  Do you think they have attained on all levels they know the game so well that they have, in a sense, then not win it, because that's not what it's about in that sense, according to what I think at least. Do you think that there are some factors here or some variables that will come into the picture that even these guys haven't been able to root out or plan for ahead of time?


Alan:  They've said that themselves.  That's why they created war on what they call "individualism," because all down through history, the vast bulk of the populace, of every populace, will go along with whatever they're told. The only trouble elites and tyrants have had in the past is an occasional generation here and there, someone comes through unscathed, intact and can speak out and say what is. It's true enough, words and the pen is mightier than the sword. An idea can be a very dangerous thing.


They want to eliminate that by literally monitoring, and it's been announced last week, they want to monitor every living person from cradle to grave, psychologically and every other way. You will get pulled in for “reconditioning,” you might say, if you're not going along with what they want you to be. They will remake you. That's the extent they're going to. Right down to the bottom level, to the ordinary people, who don't have the finances or the power to take over, which tells you it's not just power and finances they're afraid of. It’s the power of the idea and someone who can give it out. That's what they want to vanquish. That's what they're terrified of.


Henrik:  Do you think that there's a kind of a higher or another purpose for the existence that we are experiencing now, considering that there is in a way that there is on many levels attributed to for those who have eyes to see, it is a very helpless thing, but the question is:  is this only the fact if we view it from a certain point of view or is this across the board? Is there another purpose for our existence here, do you think, than the one that we might think of everyday when we wake up?  I guess this is something you have to focus on or actually more spiritually, in a way, than actually just trying to go out there and battle and fight the New World Order.  It seems like whatever happens on the physical level is impossible at this point. Don't you agree?


Alan:  Yeah. The physical is no problem to them. They have all the bully boys they need. I'm sure they've bred generations with the most basic education, the most basic culture and basically no parental influence, so they have enough bully boys to do the dirty deeds; but that's not enough, obviously. They're so terrified of something. They're going to such extreme measures to control every man, woman and child on the planet forever to come, basically, and published it so. You see what you have, you cannot make the bulk of the population change their ways, even if you could tell them another way to go, to live. For most of them, this is all they know. This particular 8 to 5, Monday to Friday routine and reward yourself at the end of the month with a treat. That's what they know and they'd fight you, in fact, if you could possibly give them an alterative.


Henrik:  You think so?


Alan:  The bulk of the populace will always stand up for the status quo, even if the status quo is going to kill them and they know it. They're like lemmings that will go over the edge and they can't help themselves. They're more fearful of the unknown than the known. They’re not risk takers.


Henrik:  It feels like a lot of people complain about their day jobs and they want to get out of the system in a way, but do you think that's all a mouthpiece? It's nothing true in that--


Alan:  You know by their actions. It's not what people say. It's what they do.


Henrik:  Oh yeah, I agree on that definitely. That's right. If you believe that you can make it or breakout of the system, or even financially or whatever, I definitely think that there is a possibility of doing that. In that sense, I'm a strong believer in the intention power, if you actually focus on something and if you want it bad enough, you actually are going to get it. However, as you say, if the actions of the people are that they're still within the system but complain, there is maybe some unconscious level to these persons that they say they want to be in that role and they might even feel comfortable within it, because they are taken care of, in a way, I guess? I don't know.


Alan:  There's such a thing as happy slavery. Charles Galton Darwin, the grandson of Charles, said in his book "The Next Million Years": "we are now creating a more sophisticated form of slavery,” and that's called socialism.  Bush Sr. used the term which the United Nations told him to use because they're using it now, and it's called communitarianism rather than communism. It's really collectivism, and knowing that 80-odd percent, maybe more today, of the populace are happy to have the illusion that at least they're being well looked after, as long as they can play right through their adulthood and die without having to worry about serious problems or making big serious decisions.  Socialism or collectivism is perpetual childhood.  People are making decisions as to what's going to happen to them on an individual basis today. You hear them by those who say, "I don't want to know."  They're telling you that they are making decisions right now.


Henrik:  In a way they're also putting off or postponing the biggest challenge of them all; because, in a way, in the end, if the big boys get what they want, these people are going to end up in a -- well it depends on how you view it. In a way we might actually live in the perfect system, because as they, old empires, if we studied them, they have fallen, because of either that they couldn't supply enough bread and circuses, as we've been talking about, that would put this society that we're living in now, the perfect system to actually -- so it can sustain itself and actually prevent itself from actually collapsing.  As long as we can give people enough products or whatever that -- something that would actually stimulate them enough so they don't want to wake up.  They don't ask the questions that don't even want to escape from their regular patterns basically, so we might now be in the perfect society from the elites point of view.


Alan:  Yes we are. They have trained generations now into this with a fake reality which comes from television. Jacques Ellul, one of the top sociologists, behavioral scientist, said in the '50’s: the public don't realize that every part of entertainment (especially to do with television shows on dramas and fiction on cops, police, hospitals, social workers and so on) that it's all propaganda, because it's meant to give you a fake view of what it's really all about, so that you will obey these things as authorities not as services. That has happened. That has been fulfilled. People truly think that the social services are out there to help them. They don't realize there's a massive business there that grabs elderly people and puts them in hospitals and confiscates their homes and sells them and puts the money in their bank accounts for the hospital staff, you know, at the top. They don't know the reality of these scams. They believe the TV drama fictional version.  That's why there are so many cop shows about tracking the murderer, it's always some severe crime, so dedicated. Police are not there to do that. Police are there to spy on everyone including you. That's always been the job of policemen.  It gives you a distorted perception of a reality. In other words, it camouflages the bars around the system.


Henrik:  Yes, definitely. The prison without the bars as it were. However, let's say more and more people--and I heard a reports about this or news stories about a lot of people are actually are turning away at least from mainstream media reporting. A lot more people are turning to the Internet. Of course there will be a consequent reaction to this, and there is now, of course, from the elite. They flood the Internet with a lot of information of course, but it feels like in a way that the old television as per se as it is functioning now is a bit turning away.  People are turning away from it and finding other sources. Do you think that is a sign of something positive?


Alan:  No. See, again, we're dealing with think tanks that plan the future and ever possible happening in the future. It's very much like the Talmud. It's a Talmudic technique. Those who study the Talmud and you've probably seen Jewish Rabbis as they sort of bob towards each other up and down, up and down.  One throws out a question about something that you and I would say is so immaterial or irrelevant, but there is actually one to do with the comb. Who drops the comb? Okay, does the person who sees it dropped. Is he responsible for that? What will happen? Could someone fall, trip over that? Who’s responsible, and so on. In other words, they take a happening and take a thousand possible consequences from that happening.  That's how think tanks in military circles work.


They didn't give us the Internet to help us. Internet means to bury the net. You inter the net. International means "to bury the nation." You see?  We are all the fish in the net, and when they pull that drawstring we all get pulled in. It’s also called the "web."  The web is something you get stuck upon. It's not to free you. You get stuck on it.  They gave us this.  Brzezinski  talked about it before the public got it. He published it in his book. He said, "shortly the public will be given a form of communication which they think will be there to benefit themselves.”  In actual fact, they're there to condition a world society along a certain way of thinking, and it's done primarily through the big boys putting the biggest sites out there. If you go into the Internet, it's like an LSD trip. There's more phony but well financed organizations out there, with massive sites on Atlantis and everything else, to get you fascinated in a never, never land forever and ever, until everything is surrealistic and your concepts and perceptions become, and your conclusions are, surrealistic. They're not based on realism; and this is, again, psychological warfare.


I've watched some of the heroes they've given to the public that have come out to demonstrate some of the equipment the CIA used to use, like the mind control projects, wondering how they got their hands on this equipment.  You can't buy it at the Army surplus stores. It's not there for sale. Now those same people are pushing the benefits of using more science to improve our quality of life, to alter us and perfect us.  Strangely enough, they've gone in this circle, this round about yawing way, which is probably the real way of Yah or Yahweh. It's a round about tacking way that nautical guys take and it takes you back in the exact same direction after the guys are freeing you with real information. They take you back into the same slip stream where science is going to be your savior, which is exactly what the elite want you to think and believe. The big question is "can you have your cake and eat it too?"


Henrik:  All that is going on now, do you think it's dangerous?  Do we have to return to -- the question if this is about survival of the human race, then okay, obviously this is extremely dangerous, but is there any other level here that kind of hints that what we are involved in here isn't dangerous in that sense?  This is a part of the experience that we are meant to go through at this time?


Alan:  The thing is you can never speak for everyone. Ultimately you are a separate being. You're experiences, your knowledge is gleaned from your own experiences, if you have them. What you have, what comes your way is what you seek. If you seek science, you'll just immerse yourself in scientific knowledge. If you seek something beyond that, you have to say, "I want truth. I want truth on no conditions." Everyone, in fact, wants ultimate truths, but they want to have their conditions laid down first. That's been the same in all religions down through the ages as esoteric traditions. They even slipped it in the New Testament, where if some guy wants to know or follow the Jesus and he says, what you do is give everything away, your lands and so on; because he's a rich guy, and the guy cried because he couldn't do that. If you truly are seeking something, you can't bring along your own conditions. It also means you can't bring along your old way of life and what you clung onto as well. That's where most people fall short. You could give them a chance, say in an allegorical fashion of a heaven; and yet their own baggage would be their downing point. They couldn't leave it behind them. They'd want to take it with them and that will be their anchor.


Henrik:  This in a way is the classical myth or story of the heroes’ journey, and in a way you have to transcend, for instance, as you say, your baggage.


Alan:  Everything that you've worried about and wanted. Yet the more you want, the more you accumulate, the more you worry about it. Priorities—what is important to the person? Then the whole thing about faith comes down. Do you have faith? If you gave all this up, would you take the big jump, the big leap into the unknown; because truth doesn't come tailor-made and say it's got a nice Hollywood happy ending.


Henrik:  That's right, exactly. It could be a great tragedy at the end of that road, but as you say, that's part of that yearning, because if you would know beforehand what you would actually get, there's even no reason for you to do the journey in the first place, right?


Alan:  Exactly.  That's what the elite are doing. They're saying we'll give you the fantasia. We'll chip your mind, your brain. You could be working in a barn where cattle are and you'll think you're on the moon with James Bond fighting the bad guy, in your mind. They may give you the scientific reality, not a real but a virtual reality, and most people you will find will go for that because they have no faith in anything else.


Henrik:  Even in some instances they've even paid for the experience as it were, and they're guaranteed a certain amount of happy and sad moments on the way. It's like a prepackaged life experience where we go into an agency and you are promised “okay, we're going to guarantee you that you will have this and this included in your experience.” It will be a pleasant ride for you, basically.


Alan:  That's right. I think Schwarzenegger did a movie on that.


Henrik:  "Total Recall." 


Alan:  That's what the public will go for. Here's my mind. That's the western value system. Here's the money. Give me the experience, and don't waste my time. Do it now.


Henrik:  Exactly. Yeah, I want it now. That's right.


Alan:   The most ancient problem is: what is life about? What is the purpose for you? Not for everybody else. What is the purpose for you?


 Is the purpose to accumulate knowledge or to stop using a stone axe and use a metal one (which starts on the sciences), or are you happy, living in a world where everything makes sense to you? It's a form of quality. What is total quality to the person? We in the West have decided (or it's been decided for us) a long time ago. That's the allegory of Eden; once you walk out of Eden, which is nature, you cannot walk back.  Everything was perfect. It was an allegory of perfection. Once you're out of there, now you must feed yourself, clothe yourself, hunt, and in other words, science through tools and science et cetera, you've already chosen a path. There's only one way out of it.  That's the path we're on and yet the path itself has told us, or the keepers of the path have told us, they are going to take us into a totally controlled society where even thoughts will be categorized and controlled as well. Through science it cannot go any other way.


Henrik:  That's very much, as you say, the adversarial force. The force in a sense is afraid of true spirit and true creativity through beauty in that sense by actually trying to artificially create everything around it, and also controlling it.  If there is such a thing as an omnipotent being out there (God or whatever) that actually can see and monitor and actually is in contact with everything. What's interesting, it seems to me, is that the world that is being created now is actually trying to replicate the very same thing in a way.


Alan:  Via scientific means.


Henrik:  Exactly. Either it's through RFID or IP addresses on every little gadget. It's all about monitoring every single little piece of everything to create that connection as it were with all, I guess.


Alan:  That's what they want. It's a hive; and that's the term they used at the Loyola meeting. It will be a society that will be more like a hive. In the hive you hear the buzzing of the bees and all you'll hear, just like the "Star Trek" series, and the Borg is the buzz of thoughts going back and forth in all different peoples. You could not differentiate your own. It would be impossible to. The world they want to bring about now, they're not giving you the right to make your own program, by the way. Someone else will be authorized and stamped and approved to do it for you.


Henrik:  If people would enter into that system of when it really kicks off technologically, because we might be there psychologically, but many people, as far as I know, at least don't have the chip in them as it were.  What about people who actually would be in that kind of system and actually enjoying it?  Would it be right from our perspective to try and go in there and actually stop them from entering into that system?


Alan:  It will be very much like "The Matrix" movie itself, where Morpheus takes Neo.  Neo is just the New Anderson (the son of man) and so Morpheus is a shape shifter in a sense in that he morphs down through the ages. It's an allegory again of people in every age. However, in the practice Matrix he shows you all the people and Neo gets distracted with the red clad beauty.


Henrik:  The lady in red.


Alan:  He turns around and the next minute there's someone with a gun.  Then Morpheus tells him, he's trying to point out, that everyone around you that you think is normal, even those that you might love dearly, is a potential agent. Which we already have; we have people today who will turn people in, thinking they're doing the system a favor; because you're now abhorrent or you have strange thoughts or you have terroristic ideas. Now terroristic ideas could be just an opinion on something which is not authorized from the top. It constantly is broadening this whole idea of terrorism.


People round about you who don't understand, who think that the news is real and everything they get told is real, have never questioned their education. They’ve never studied for themselves. They've been fed all that they know. Those people are dangerous to those around that understand what's going on. They're really basically decent people deep down, it's just that they're already under mind control and they don't know it.


Henrik:  Do you think that in a way it's rather brutal to say that the people in that sense are soulless?  I don't think that's possible in that sense, maybe, but do you think there is -- you know the spirit of some people seem to be stronger in some people than in others. Do you think that there is a particular class of people that actually more inclined to go into a system that is about all of that control into the hive?  And that the rebel with a true spirit actually is the one who's only resisting it, but that's not enough to go around so to speak?


Alan:  In our world we do have, and I’ve gone into this many times, this odd phenomenon called "psychopath", psychopathic personality. It isn't just at the top strata of society, you have it all through society. Perhaps the problem today isn't that there are too few people controlling the majority of good people, maybe the good people are already in the minority all through society. If you walk and listen to the values that people espouse, it's all concrete thinking. What they've bought. What they want. What they're going to do. It's egotistical. They've already emulated what they admire—and that's the elites, the ones who have power. They copy their speech, dress and fashion. They want to get up there. They'd love to get up there. A psychopath worships the more powerful person the person above them. The only one they'll respect is the one with more power above them. In fact, they're in awe of the person who is superior. We saw that with the communist upper elite military system and we see it in the Nazi system too. The ones below admire the guy above and they grovel almost and salivate at the thought of having that power that the person above them has. Now the public unfortunately are doing the same thing. They’re emulating the Donald Trumps, or they want to. Anyone who is famous and rich and wealthy, regardless of how they got it, is admired and people bow to them and curtsey and all this stuff. We see this on much entertainment every day, you know “the stars.” The people are showing you their gods. They're showing you what they worship.


Henrik:  Do you think it's a misinterpretation from our point of view that we believe that we thought that the human race was actually something more?  If we actually look at it maybe that is what the human race is and was, and so forth, but it's we who are the divergent factor in a human experiment?


Alan:  That's why I always say I would not try to save this system, which is artificial beyond perversion. It's corrupt from top to bottom. In fact we all have to be forced into it and be corrupt to survive because it's a scaled system of dog-eat-dog, from the worst ones at the top down to the bottom.  We're all forced to participate because they've given us no other way out.


They've closed all the old loopholes. You can't go off into the country, put up an old shack somewhere and live your days out, because a man with a tape measure from the government is going to measure it and demand taxes.  You must get money to pay him. If you get money you've got to go out and work in the exploitation business or be exploited yourself, or work for someone that's exploiting someone else by what you make, because of the vast profit which is extortion. The whole system is based on a form of extortion. Yet most people would probably, if you could show them any other way, they would rather opt for that which they know.


Henrik:  Do you think that they have -- because in a sense if you were to look at nature, I don't see nature as a brutal force, but the reality of this is that there's always a bigger fish -- the bigger fish eat the smaller ones and so forth. It's rampant in that sense in nature. It's about one species actually thriving on another. Do you think that is what has been emulated within the artificial human system, that they've looked upon nature and said okay--


Alan:  All through the writings the elite always talked about the laws of nature. Now they just use the word “science,” which is the same thing for them. However, what they never talk about is the fact that being humans we always have the temptation to do the wrong thing and a choice to do the right thing. Animals and insects don't; so we're not animals, you see. We’re not insects.  We have choices.


Henrik:  I agree.


Alan:  You can't blame a bear for coming up and killing your cat outside your house because it will want to eat the cat; and there's no point in persuading him either.  We humans have the choice of what we want to do; and as I say, it's always easy to do the wrong thing than to do the right thing. It's an odd phenomenon. However, the old story is like a collection agency in a sense, the more wrongs you do, it will catch up with you eventually. You can't get away with it; and the world really has got an accumulation of choosing the wrong things. We're about due for a comeuppance. Yet we always do know what the right thing is. We know. Now the only person you could say is not human on the planet, again, is a psychopath, because if you define human, a fully human, it has nothing to do with intellect. It has nothing to do with education or living standard. It’s to do with empathy for other people. The psychopath does not have it at all. They're like a separate species, and because of that, they have no squabbles about doing what we judge as being wrong. They don't have guilt. They have no guilt whatsoever about anything which they do.  We have a different type amongst us, but too many today, I think. We're allowing them to guide us.  What they're going to do is stamp out our ability, our uniqueness above all the animals, insects and everything else, they want to stamp out our ability to have consciousness; to make conscious decisions of right and wrong. They've decided they’re going to do it all for us, so there will be no individual path. There will be no ability to even seek anything beyond yourself, for yourself.


Henrik:  This is a way the battle of our times.  If we look at history, there have been numerous amounts of tyrannies roaming around, and in all ages it seems like there's a different battle to be fought, and in this one, just as we've been talking about here today.  That seems to be the kind of our battle in that sense.


Alan:  It's a battle. See, you don't find this -- and I always used to wonder why an elite and all sciences too are taught this. They teach the students of zoology and ethnology, and so on, they teach them this; and they call them "primitive peoples."  Anyone who is, and again they call it "stagnant" or "arrested civilizations," people who are quite happy with the tools they have, the lifestyle that they have. They're not interested in going any further. We call them primitive or arrested civilizations; and the elite really hate them. They really hate them because those people are -- it's almost like showing them an alternative system to their own.


Henrik:  Exactly, a more natural one.


Alan:  They have no problems with psychopaths because they don't have any armies; standing armies or military or police. If a deviant were to come along or pop up, they would dispose of that deviant; because the psychopath, if he's allowed to carry on, will seek power. Every psychiatric book on the planet admits the psychopath does more damage to those around them than to themselves, because they feel no guilt, sorrow or pain or anything else.  They crave power and power over others.  Our system, which is called money, reward, punishment et cetera, accumulation, is built from its inception and money and a commercial psychopathic system where the rich live and the poor die, the old story. That's not a humane system. It's actually a psychopathic system. The reason being is that pathocracies always end up giving you a culture which is based on their belief system. We go along with it because it’s all that we know if you're born into it, but we wouldn't go as far, hopefully, as to kill the person next to you to get the promotion.


Henrik:  That might come about though, battle of the employment. Oh my God.


Alan:  It's probably happened a lot more than we know.  That's the system. We are in the deviant system run by the deviants.


Henrik:  We have to wakeup from our naďve attitude, because often it goes back to the fact that people don't recognize that there actually are people out there who don't have their best of interests at heart. Even the ruling forces might actually be out there, to not help you but to actually harm you.  Again, it's more about our naďve attitude towards that, I think.


Alan:   Yes. If you go into the study of the psychopath, it's all self-explanatory because a psychopath who lacks the emotion is a born actor. He smells the wind immediately. He doesn't think it through. He instinctively acts and he will be a spokesman for you and he'll say all the right things. He'll put on all the right drama you expect to see and hear.  They have led us down through the ages in this monetary system.


Henrik:  Alan, I think this is a great place to begin to round things up here. I've very much enjoyed this conversation, so again, thank you so much for coming on and sharing with us your insights and theories and opinions about this.  I think this is a battle that is going on and we are in it, as it were, right now; and you are doing the work you do over at of course.  Again, I want to give you the opportunity in case we have some new listeners in this segment or whatever with us, to mention your websites and what do you have up there for us?


Alan:  They can check into and and take as many free downloads as they want of my talks, and try and support me by buying some of my books if possible.  We'll keep going as long as we can for as long as it's possible.


Henrik:  As long as it's possible, exactly. Thank you so much, Alan, for coming on. I’ll look forward to next month talking with you again. Until then, of course, take good care and we'll talk more then.

Thank you so much for coming on.


Alan:  Bye now.



(Transcribed by Linda)